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Using Runner paid abilities during Corp's turn ( Net Shield, Clone chip etc. )


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#1 Dydra

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

Hello again guys!

Last night I was watching through FFG's FAQ regarding the game ( with the specific rulings and FAQs for certain cards), because one of my friends plays Shaper, just with a core set deck         ( yes, I know it's bad and stupid, but he can't afford data packs atm and is a stubborn bastard to not play criminal !).

SO he has Net Shield in his deck and I play ... Jinteki ... so it's actually useful for him to some degree.  

So here are my questions... When he can use his Net Shield? 

Now the basic answer would be -  " In a paid window of time" 

However, it still needs further clarification.

I have the FAQ right in front of me, the structure of the Corp's turn is:
 

1. Corporation’s Draw Phase
1.1 Paid Abilities can be triggered , Non-ice cards can be rezzed, Score Agends 
1.2 Turn begins (“When your turn begins” conditionals meet their trigger conditions)
1.3 Draw one car

 

2. Corporation’s Action Phase
2.1  <= Same 3=>
2.2 Take actions
After each action:   <= Same 3 =>
 

 

Obviously, he can Activate Net Shield at the start of the turn, and prevent the 1 Net damage I deal from Personal Evolution. However, what about if he doesn't sense/see it, could he use the net shield to Prevent the damage AFTER I score the Agenda and the Personal Evolution triggers?

Does he need, to use the LAST paid ability window, BEFORE I score to block it? Or he can use the one AFTER I score it?

My argument is that It's my turn, so my actions take priority ( regarding paid abilities) over his, so my net damage WILL resolve before he can pay up.


The question might seem stupid, about a card like Net Shield, but it's actually  hugely important. Because one of my other friends is playing a Shaper deck with Clone Chips and Deus EX.

So if the ruling works for Net Shield, I guess it will also work, for a Clone Chip +Deus Ex.

I have no problem with him using Clone Chip + Deus Ex for my 1 Net damage from PE, but he will never do that lol. The problem is that if this ruling is correct, then that means that he can do that ( Clone chip + Deus ex) when I'm about to :

1) Ronnin Him
2) Neural EMP him 

Which is just SAD and BROKEN ... I cast Neural EMP to Finish him Off and he then Clone Chips for Deus Ex...

Or I spend 5 clicks to finally hit him with my Ronnin and he says " NO , NO , NO ...lol ".

It would make sense for him to SENSE something is wrong and do that in the last paid ability window, but if he can do that on the go , AS I AM HITTING HIM ... That's just broken 



#2 frybender

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:40 PM

From the rule book:

Some card abilities use the words “prevent” or “avoid.” Prevent or avoid effects are the only effects which can disrupt another effect. A prevent or avoid effect states what it is preventing or avoiding, and an effect that is prevented or avoided is not resolved. Prevent or avoid effects can be triggered whenever the effect they are preventing or avoiding is resolving.

 

Therefore he can use netshield in order to disrupt the ability of Jinteki to deal damage.

 

However you can't use clone chip (or SMC) since that is not a prevent ability. (and as you pointed out yourself kinda unfair)


Edited by frybender, 11 October 2013 - 03:44 PM.


#3 nungunz

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:46 PM

Page 21 under "Conditional Abilities"



#4 Dydra

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

From the rule book:

Some card abilities use the words “prevent” or “avoid.” Prevent or avoid effects are the only effects which can disrupt another effect. A prevent or avoid effect states what it is preventing or avoiding, and an effect that is prevented or avoided is not resolved. Prevent or avoid effects can be triggered whenever the effect they are preventing or avoiding is resolving.

 

Therefore he can use netshield in order to disrupt the ability of Jinteki to deal damage.

 

However you can't use clone chip (or SMC) since that is not a prevent ability. (and as you pointed out yourself kinda unfair)


Does this mean that he can Clone Chip for Deus Ex lets say on my 3rd or 4th advance?



#5 radiskull

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:57 PM

Yes - the runner has the ability to use paid abilities between each of your clicks. However, if it's the final advancement on an agenda, then you get to rez the agenda before the runner can use any paid abilities.

 

If it's a Ronin, the runner has to be given the opportunity to do something before you spend the click to zap him. (since it takes a click)



#6 Dydra

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:09 PM

Yes - the runner has the ability to use paid abilities between each of your clicks. However, if it's the final advancement on an agenda, then you get to rez the agenda before the runner can use any paid abilities.

 

If it's a Ronin, the runner has to be given the opportunity to do something before you spend the click to zap him. (since it takes a click)

Sorry, but what exactly is the difference?
Let's say is an Agenda , sequence is like

= Paid ability window=
= My action/ click = 
I use it ( to advance)
= Agenda Scores=
= Paid ability window =

So my agenda Resolves ( after I've used my click/turn to advance) and score.
How is this different for the Ronnin?
4 advancement Tokens
= Paid Ability window=
= My action/click=
I use it ( to trigger the ronnin)
= Ronnin Resolves =
= Paid Ability window =

Ronnin is 4 advancement ( 4 clicks) + a click to cast ... if he Doesn't pay up after the last paid ability window ( after the forth advance) the Ronnin will resolve before he can do anything, right? 

EDIT: Pardon my latter question, maybe I misread your reply. I just want to make sure ...


Also, pardon me again, but I think it would be rather stupid, of me, to be like " First Click ADvance, Second Click Advance , .... now I'm about to fry you for 3 net damage, do you wanna take out your Deus ex from the heap with your clone chip and prevent me from killing you?"  ...

I guess if he says " yes" , well I still have my 3rd click unspent so might not activate Ronnin at all lol ...


EDIT2: OOOOh , I see ... so u mean that I can't 4 advance and kill him, because he can use the Paid Window in between the 4th Advance and the click to do ... something  :)) yes, I do understand that ... but that is LOGICAL , because Ronnin doesn't require 4 advancement to trigger, but 4 advancement AND click :)) Ok, fully on board with that :) 


Edited by Dydra, 11 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.


#7 radiskull

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

Yeah. :) To use Ronin's click ability, you first have to rez Ronin in a paid ability window.  Then, before you can spend another click, the Runner has the ability to use paid abilities of his own.

 

And yes, make sure that the Runner has the ability to use paid abilities between your clicks. Otherwise, I'd probably not offer any helpful advice unless it's a teaching game. :)






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