You talked about “skin armour” Are you upset that standard ball ammo fired from a small caliber autogun can’t penetrate 1+inch of power armour? And yes I know that a stone thrown by a small child/autogun/autocannon/macro-cannon have a 33% chance of penetrating power armour and 17% chance of penetrating terminator armour in the TT game. Armour made of compressed fairy dust magically letting a certain % of all attacks through is not realistic/fun in a RPG.
I used that (intentionally derogatory) term because TB really works like armour in the current system. Nay, actually it works better than real armour, since TB cannot be neutralised by Pen!
Actually naked Space Marines make for even more silly effects, of course. I'll get to that in a little while.
And there are no small children throwing rocks in the TT. Anything you encounter on those battlefields is a dangerous weapon of terrible potential, which kinds of fits thematically to the setting. I'm actually a bit sad that you don't seem to subscribe to that idea, but ... matter of taste, I guess.
It's kind of fun, because with the way Righteous Fury works in the latest game, your example with the rock would actually be more appropriate in FFG's RPGs.
I don't have a problem with how armour, any armour, works in these games, though. It fits to the background I'm used to (for the most part), and for what it's worth, its mechanic is pretty standard for a P&P.
What really messes with the injury system is the way how TB stacks with armour, though. To use your example, your "standard ball ammo" actually has a good chance of penetrating the armour. It'll just bounce off the skin below.
PS: In GW's Codex fluff, Marine power armour has a thickness of 1 inch at its thickest point, and a chance of 50-85% to protect its wearer against injury from small arms.
Not that this is in any way authoritative. Just saying what's printed in the original material, so you see where I am coming from.
No. A nailgun would have low damage. Most hits wouldn't cause a wound to a normal human
The game has rules for Improvised Weapons, and the nailgun would qualify as such. Or are you argueing it's less lethal than a fist punch? I guess we'd have to agree to disagree then.
I’m not saying that FFGs abstract damage system is perfect but it works ok with a couple of changes to make it more realistic. I like realistic damage systems but it’s nothing wrong with using a damage system based on video games / movies if you like that better. The later is probably what most 40RPG players expect.
That's kind of strange, now, considering that it is me who is argueing for a more lethal injury system, and you to keep the movie-like super toughness that makes people way more resilient against the guns of the far future.
What I really was expecting was a damage system that replicates the deadliness of the 41st millennium! Not Hollywood action heroes shrugging off hits from armour piercing missiles without even a flesh wound.
Ok let’s use the standard space marine (BC pg.367) again with TB 8 and 20 wounds.This time he’ll have his power armor (8 All, 10 Body) and we shot him in the face with a standard plasma gun (BC pg.155) on low setting damage 1d10+8 and pen 10 . +8 damage exactly cancel the default SM TB and the pen 10 defeat standard SM power amour. It almost look like the designers intentionally used damage/pen values that always will wound a standard space marine.
Average damage is 5,5 or 11 wounds if both shots hit. 11 or 22 wounds if fired on high setting. Using the legion plasma rifle on high setting average damage is 15 or 30 wounds.
Your definition of “nice tan” is a bit strange…
Dark Heresy and Only War plasma pistols have a damage profile of 1d10+6 Pen 6 E.
For added lulz, let's assume the character doesn't have a helmet and takes the shot straight to his naked face.
Using average damage (let's round up and say a roll of 6, for a total of 12 damage), this means the Marine gets his hairs burned off and is blinded a bit. Awesome.
Then consider that TB 8 is the low end for Astartes, and it's probably safe to say that most PCs buy a couple Toughness advances, so we're quickly getting to TB10 when you actually play them in a game. Even an Astartes plasma pistol with an average damage of 16 would result in a mere Crit 6.
Oh, and of course this is all assuming we do not factor in the many Wounds and instead go straight to the Crit table ...
Ok so "orginal material" is not the original material but the 2nd/3rd edition TT game. That explains a lot. Maybe you should try to read some of the books your “original material” originates from?
Please, let's not be childish. As I said, we are talking about "Warhammer 40.000". I thought it was pretty much accepted that this means 2nd Edition up until now (6th)? Did I give off the impression I would talk about the Rogue Trader Marines, which are quite a bit different from their 2E version?
I do have the 1st edition Rogue Trader book, too, though, just because I'm a collector of fluff, it has some cool ideas, and not everything got retconned.
Have you read the new horus heresy books from Forgeworld Games Workshop Ltd? They have .60/.70 cal bolters and .50 cal bolt pistols. (Horus Heresy Betrayal pg.19)
Oh noes, support for different caliber bolt shells. Heresy!!!
As I said, I generally don't have much interest in what anyone but GW's core studio is putting out, as I value consistency too much and have made the experience that other writers just have a lot of different ideas.
I'm sure there's also a bunch of "Black Library Games Workshop Ltd." novels that have all sorts of funny ideas, but that's just not the background I'm working with. If you like it, run with it, but don't complain when someone is sticking to the core material.
I noticed people mentioning Space Marine (the novel, that is) up there. Considering Black Library themselves have pretty much outright implied it's not canon in the modern 40k setting, I'm pretty sure it can be totally ignored. Unless you like you Psycannon bolts being made of the Emperor's defecation, Space Marines hijacking titans, and other fun Ian Watson creations.
To be fair, given that apparently there is no canon, I don't have much of a problem with those older books. I've certainly seen a lot of weird things in current novels, too.
It's just that ... well, there's not much of a point argueing about stuff like this. As I said earlier, technically, neither of us can be "wrong", since everything is a matter of interpretation and preferences.
Now, I've never read Space Marine, but I did enjoy his Inquisitor novel about Jaq Draco and his team. It was one of my first 40k books ever! Picked it up in a magazine store at the train station many, many years ago. /nostalgia