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#1 peterstepon

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

I had to ask, what would Space Marines be like under the new system? Would they be powerful "novel marines"? Would they have the same level of bad assery as they do in the space marine battle novels?

#2 Radwraith

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

I had to ask, what would Space Marines be like under the new system? Would they be powerful "novel marines"? Would they have the same level of bad assery as they do in the space marine battle novels?

Since the new system is not yet out it would be hard to give a clear answer. One possibility would be to look at BC. An Imperial space Marine is no different than a CSM at the basic lvl. The Space Marine is obviously better at combat whereas the 'human' character has the edge in interactions and stealth abilities.



#3 peterstepon

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:18 AM

That makes sense.  I was wondering what kind of Stats Space Marines would have under the new system.  Would you be able to create the epic battles where a few dozen space marines fight off a horde of thousands of Xenos and amass a huge body count.

 

The reason I ask is that I am reading "The Siege of Castellax" which is part of the Space Marine Battles series and I am absolutely loving it.  It is filled with Chaos Space Marines slaugtering hordes of orks and going head to head against a Waaagh!  10 Space Marines against a whole city of Xenos..no problem.  I would like to see how this would be represented in the new 40K rues and if they could recreate that awesome Badassery that Space Marines are known for.

 

I am referring to "Novel Marines" which is how they are portrayed in Novels, not "Table Top" Marines which is how they would be scaled down in the wargame.



#4 Scyndria

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

I have only read "Helsreach", but in that novel, the Black Templars are crushing the orks like "butter vs knife". But that only happen until the orks are too many.

I'm a huge fan of the Black Templars and Salamanders, so that book is already a favorite (easy to say). But i also like to see some weakness in those Space Marines. In Helsreach, the most horrifying weapon (except the titans) the orks use is some kind of power spear to neutralize the Power Pack and inflict some heavy damage (If i remember correct, 2-3 BT's die by that weapon, pierced from behind).

 

This remind me of the rules about Righteous Fury in DH2. You will outright kill Novice and Elites by that, which ofc can be a lucky shot/hit, but some enemies are just too strong against that (like space marines.. think about it, 1 lucky lasgun shot and a space marine are dead).



#5 Lynata

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:35 AM

DH2 appears to still have Toughness Bonus as "skin armour", so for better or worse this probably means that Space Marines will continue to be fairly invincible in certain conditions of martial combat, with all the problems that occur should you ever mix them with "lesser" characters.

 

If you like "Movie Marines", then I think you can rest comfortably that they will be "suitably" awesome. Perhaps not like in Deathwatch, where they get a ton of special traits and skills on top of their basic stuff, but still.

 

I am referring to "Novel Marines" which is how they are portrayed in Novels, not "Table Top" Marines which is how they would be scaled down in the wargame.

 

Hah, careful. "Scaled down" implies that that an environment where each faction is treated equally would be less objective than one with established protagonists/heroes and "plot armour".  ;)

 

 

I have only read "Helsreach", but in that novel, the Black Templars are crushing the orks like "butter vs knife". But that only happen until the orks are too many.

 

Most armies' efficiency and "power level" waxes and wanes depending on which novel you read. I am told that Gaunt's Ghosts can make short work of CSMs, because in their books, the Space Marines are not the main characters.

Since most novels have Marines as heroes, however, this would probably classify as an exception from the rule.

 

Personally, I tend to look at GW's original material for the "balanced" approach (which would also better enable mixed parties), but given how "everything and nothing is true" as far as 40k "canon" is concerned, this is something we all have to decide for ourselves. Worst case, just houserule the stuff you're not happy with! :)


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previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#6 TormDK

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:27 AM

My only plea would be to ensure that they make further steps towards a unified platform, so weapons etc. have their base stats and we have something easy to build further upon.



#7 Simsum

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

My only plea would be to ensure that they make further steps towards a unified platform, so weapons etc. have their base stats and we have something easy to build further upon.


They won't. It's the one "plea" that doesn't divide the community. Even the people not asking for it, aren't against it.

And it's a nightmare from a systems design point of view. If you have them, crack open Death Watch and Black Crusade and have a good look at character advancement and combat mechanics. How do you make the system scale to fit everything from lowly acolytes to veteran SM's?

FFG's answer has been to separate the systems and and scale the power curve differently in each game line. Which isn't a bad solution if the system itself is a holy cow. The alternative is that either SM's and lowly acolytes are near identical in play, or that one or the other is so far down or up the power scale they're functionally next to snotlings or greater daemons, respectively.

2nd Edition could have been a great opportunity to create a system that can actually do things like lowly Acolytes and veteran SM's without either making them functionally near-identical, or the system falling apart, or having to separate the game out into multiple incompatible game lines. But even before FFG scrapped the beta in favour of a more OW compatible system, that's not the direction they were going in. Not even a little bit.

So...

I want the same thing you do, but odds of us getting it are worse than the odds of the Sun not rising tomorrow.

#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:54 PM

I have a strong intuition from looking at this endless "skin armour" debates that Lynata is not aware that NPCs in BC and OW get Zealous Hatred/Righteous Fury. Because she keeps talking about the space marines being invulnerable thing.

 

If not, she should be happy to learn that Sororitas bolters will in general 20% of the time do serious damage to space marines per hit as they trigger 1d5 X critical effects.



#9 Tom Cruise

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:24 PM

Actually, if they don't manage to break through armour and toughness, all they're doing to do is a measly one wound. Which isn't much worry to a Space Marine, they have a lot of wounds.



#10 Ghaundan

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:45 AM

Actually, if they don't manage to break through armour and toughness, all they're doing to do is a measly one wound. Which isn't much worry to a Space Marine, they have a lot of wounds.

Exept dark heresy 2nd editon doesn't have wounds, and thus space marines won't have more then others. They will be harder to hurt, but that one wound gives +5 per wound. Or have things changed? I haven't read up on the beta in awhile...

Novel marines are...a weird concept as they vary greatly from novel to novel, even within the same novel. And that's simply because it's a novel, with a predetermined plot, characters going through said plot and everything around them structured to make this as exciting as possible. 

In Word Bearers Omnibus alot of terminators die, even other CSM, when the angle is from the opponents point of view when it fits the narrative. Other times they slaughter through to give the reader a sense of the hopless despair the people fighting them feel. And when reading from the point of the Word Bearers they tend to crush everything. So novel marine is a difficult concept.

As for how they will be? however your game master decides to make and play them. As for stats, I'd look at OW.

A good way to see how differently the various factions are portrayed read the codices. Most write favourably about their chosen faction with only the space marine codex going grim derpness. At least the last edition codex, haven't read this one.



#11 Tom Cruise

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:01 AM

I assumed considering he was speaking in terms of Only War rules, that we'd be assuming Only War wounds.



#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:36 AM

Actually, if they don't manage to break through armour and toughness, all they're doing to do is a measly one wound. Which isn't much worry to a Space Marine, they have a lot of wounds.

 

But they will break through armour and toughness bonus, because TB8 + AP4 = 12 < 15

 

In fact, an overloaded lasgun can do this, because TB8 + AP 6 = 14 < 15

 

It is barely possible for a BC Space Marine to reach a TB high enough that TB + AP4 is greater than 14, but said Marine is almost certainly Nurgle-aligned. so...

 

Maximum possible Chaos Space Marine bonus is 5 (rolled 50 for starting Toughness) + 1 (chose Perfection and Fortitude as Motivation and Pride) + 4 (Unnatural Toughness (4)) + 1 (Mark of Nurgle) + 2 (all 4 Toughness stat increases) = 13. That requires a highly unlikely set of circumstances + Mark of Nurgle + all 4 Toughness stat increases (which virtually requires being Devoted to Nurgle).

 

So yes Plague Marines are tough. However they are Plague Marines. Anybody else isn't going to break 10.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, there is virtually nothing in the BC or OW books that is not a Daemon Engine with a TB higher than 11, including the Lord of Change, Keeper of Secrets, and Great Knarloc (which has a TB of 8).

 

The full list, going by memory, of things with TB higher than 12 (that is, cannot be hurt by a standard laspistol), not counting daemon-possessed tanks, is the Canoptyk Spider, Necron Tomb Stalker, Squiggoth, Great Unclean One, Bloodthirster, and Daemon Prince. And the Leviathan, which is a mile wide. And Chaos Spawn. That's it.

 

Necron Lychguard do not have a TB over 11. Krootox have 5 in BC and 7 in OW (or is it the other way around?)

 

So this really is a nonissue, IMO.

 

(To get back to the original sentence, a "civilian bolter" will, assuming it hits an AP8 location and not the chestplate, get 1-3 Wounds through a bog-standard Space Marine about half the time and do a Critical Effect 20% of the time.)

 

EDIT: what will probably happen, I think, to a Space Marine attacked by a bunch of enemies with "civilian" bolters is eventual unconsciousness and death through Blood Loss. Sort of how when I ran the Lonely Death of Brother Agamor with myself (remember him?), he died through repeated Toxic effects made possible by RF. Death by a thousand cuts. (Well more like 10.)

 

EDIT 2: I checked. It turns out that not even most of the DAEMON ENGINES in Black Crusade have a TB over 11, not counting their Daemon Engine Trait. A Defiler has a Toughness Bonus of I think 10. Meaning that, not counting their rather high levels of armour that make this in fact impossible, a sanctified stub revolver could hurt them.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 01 November 2013 - 04:06 PM.


#13 borithan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:20 AM


FFG's answer has been to separate the systems and and scale the power curve differently in each game line. Which isn't a bad solution if the system itself is a holy cow. The alternative is that either SM's and lowly acolytes are near identical in play, or that one or the other is so far down or up the power scale they're functionally next to snotlings or greater daemons, respectively.

Well... as far as I can tell it is actually that the power level has been kicked up since Deathwatch. A lot of the adversaries, regardless of the game line, seem to be scaled along Deathwatch lines. We have seen increasingly inflated wound totals and TB totals in RT, BC and OW (not so much has been produced in DH since so I am less sure of it in that line). Faith and Coin, for example, has some cannibalistic cultists who have 20 wounds each... Nothing about them suggests they should be unusually tough, yet if you look back at the DH rulebook most normal human NPCs had between 10-15 wounds, with the higher end being reserved for actual tough guys. Some NPCs had more than this certainly, but not your average mook. Then we have an even more degenerated mutant cannibals which have a minimum of 40 wounds and a TB of 8. This compares to DH lesser daemons who tend to have about 20 wounds. When they first published a lot for the rather mental aliens in RT (the irradiated beserkers... can't remember their names) I remember thinking "These would give DW Space Marines a run for their money... oh and the published adventure throws far too many at the players". OW has Orc opponents who have another bucketful of wounds, and Dreadnoughts who can apparently only be harmed by lascannons... and even then will need repeated shots to take down.



#14 Lynata

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:46 AM

Well... as far as I can tell it is actually that the power level has been kicked up since Deathwatch. A lot of the adversaries, regardless of the game line, seem to be scaled along Deathwatch lines.

 

I did notice this, too. I believe that, in a way, they have at least partially adopted an "overarching approach" by having started to standardise certain things across the books. Marine bolters, for example, which used to be 2d10 in Dark Heresy until they added the Grey Knight in the Daemon Hammer supplement. It could be an attempt at saying "look, guys, it's still all one world, and you should feel comfortable dragging stuff from one game into another", as much as I doubt the practicality of this.

 

Either that, or it's a simple power creep, with a perceived need to introduce more dangerous opponents to be countered by the more powerful weapons and equipment that come with new books, like the infamous or awesome (depending on where you stand) Arbites shotgun.

 

Ultimately, it just feels as if the entire system could use a "primer", a sort of key for ranges of weapons and characters that should be defined before inventing individual examples. Once I had thought we'd have this with the DH core rulebook, but it turns out it got invalidated quickly.

 

I have a strong intuition from looking at this endless "skin armour" debates that Lynata is not aware that NPCs in BC and OW get Zealous Hatred/Righteous Fury.

 

I am aware. I'm just not operating on your apparent belief that "Righteous Fury" is an accurate representation of what the different weapons should be capable of - such as causing armour-piercing explosive bolter shells to behave the same as a thrown rock.

 

You could say that TB is just one of several interconnected problems I see here. Others being the weird effect RF has by allowing anything to punch through armour (and TB), or that there are two classes of the same weapon in the first place.

 

 

But they will break through armour and toughness bonus, because TB8 + AP4 = 12 < 15

In fact, an overloaded lasgun can do this, because TB8 + AP 6 = 14 < 15

 

Perhaps you should have your Space Marines actually wear their AP8+ power armour to see the problem.  :huh:


current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#15 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:27 AM


 

Perhaps you should have your Space Marines actually wear their AP8+ power armour to see the problem.  :huh:

 

They do?

 

What happens is that they go down from significant "civilian" boltgun fire. An Astartes just standing there trading shots with 5-6 Battle Sisters will statistically either kill them and be heavily wounded or kil them and walk away and be slowly dying (about 50/50 either way, I think. Maybe I should run such a combat).

 

There is no problem,. In only war , in fact, a reasonably advanced guardsman squad will be doing 1d10+9 Pen 2  with its humble lasguns on overload. Mister Math says 19 - 14 = 5. On average, actually, a Guardsman firing on standard with Get Them! in effect, with no additional talents in play, will do 1d10+7 = max 17 - 16 = 1. Whih means a crit against a Space Marine 10% of the time. So in other words Guardsmen en masse (without amping their guns up at all) will kill Space Marines without even using the heaver settings. Hey just like the fluff.

 

Well there is a problem insofar as the results do not correspond with fluff, where "fluff" actually means "a certain poster's interpretation of the fluff," which is, roughly, "space marines and sisters of battle are about equal." I don't know, that may have been the fuff 20 years ago, but it isn't now. It is currently the particular poster's fluff. no one else's, which is why the insistence on it is very irritating. The particular poster is attempting to impose their particular image of what the game should be on everybody else.

 

I really don't want to be an ass, but if I am, this is the source of it. Again, the particular poster is attempting to impose their particular image of what the game should be on everybody else.

 

Actually since the real issue is Sisters of Battle, I will point out that, without cheating by using Faith Powers, since Sisters in the FFG published material have Mighty Shot, their bolters do 1d10 + 7 Pen 4. (Note: slightly less than a heavy bolter!). With Tearing taken into account, they will do I think an avegare of 14.5 damage per hit. 14.5 - AP4 - TB8 = 2.5. Mister Math says that a Chaos Space Marine will go into crits in about 10 hits (not counting RF, which will happen 20% of the time) and die in about 15. If we assume that Mr. Generic Marine  is fighting Generic Battle Sisters.

 

Let's say 4 of them:

 

Each has 50% to hit, say, taking Aim into account. That's 2 hits per round on average. Semi-auto brings that up to I think around 4. Dodge by the SM will bring that down to around 3 (generously to the SM, since his Dodge, using the BC SM profile, is 40%). That's an average of 7.5 Wounds per round, and an average of almost 1 Critical Effect per round

 

So statistically average Chaos Space Marine will drop to 0 Wounds in 3 rounds, with probably 3 additional Crits on top of that, Statistically, he will probably  have killed 2 or less than SoBs in that time, assuming the published SoB stats and published CSM stats.

 

(I have been using Space Marines from BC, subtracting the torso armour since that is not regular fpr CSMs, and using the BoSs from Rising Tempest.)


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 09 November 2013 - 01:56 AM.


#16 AtoMaki

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:30 AM

They do?

 

AFAIK, Space Marines have Head 10, Body 12, Arms 10, Legs 10 armour, so their overall defense value is 18/20. Oh, and they have True Grit, so unless you can put 9+ Crit Wounds into them with one attack, they will be fine. This pretty much rules out lasguns (you can't even wound them with overcharge), and makes human boltguns pebble shooters (1 Wound with max damage roll, and don't hit the chest). 



#17 Lynata

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

They do?

 

What? I have quoted your post right above - you said "TB8 + AP4" in your first example, then "TB8 + AP6" in your second.

Am I missing something? Since when are AP4 and AP6 equal to AP8?

 

Well there is a problem insofar as the results do not correspond with fluff, where "fluff" actually means "a certain poster's interpretation of the fluff," which is, roughly, "space marines and sisters of battle are about equal." I don't know, that may have been the fuff 20 years ago, but it isn't now. It is currently the particular poster's fluff. no one else's, which is why the insistence on it is very irritating. The particular poster is attempting to impose their particular image of what the game should be on everybody else.

 

I really don't want to be an ass, but if I am, this is the source of it. Again, the particular poster is attempting to impose their particular image of what the game should be on everybody else.

 

If I am, then so are you - as apparently posting one's opinion counts as "attempting to impose it on everyone else" now.

 

Newsflash: The Fluff is different depending on which sources you are looking at, and technically, neither our interpretations is more "right" than the others. This does not mean, however, that I may not wish for this RPG to remain closer to the original source material rather than segregating itself away in its own corner - or that I may not point out the blatant mechanical issues and loss of gameplay potential that arise due to how FFG's current interpretation works out in terms of rules.

 

But since you asked: GW's portrayal of Sisters has not changed at all. The recent 6th edition digital Codex has re-printed both the armour description from the 3E Codex, as well as the "best wargear the Imperium has to offer" and the "killed off several Marine Chapters" lines from WD.

 

Actually since the real issue is Sisters of Battle [...]

 

It isn't, though. That's just you attempting to deflect - or you are severely misinterpreting and downplaying my intentions.

The real issue is Toughness Bonus as "skin armour" that stacks with actual plates being a poor solution that is both unrealistic as well as an issue for both high level human groups as well as (yes) Space Marines, as a lot of weapons are losing their scare and turned into the "pebble shooters" AtoMaki mentioned or, at worst, even become equalised into a general and boring "may all deal the same amount of damage if rolling a 10" profile.

Space Marines are just the case where this problem shows up the strongest, as they "neutralise" even more weapons than some souped-up TB5 Arbitrator in his Carapace suit.

 

Honestly, it's like you did not read all those threads from GMs who have been reporting problems with their group becoming too tough (which is something that already existed in Dark Heresy, thanks to high TB + Carapace). I find this particularly fascinating since you yourself have just recently recommended lowering Unnatural Toughness in a Deathwatch thread because of issues with players and enemies taking damage. Now why would you do this if you thought it was fine?

 


AFAIK, Space Marines have Head 10, Body 12, Arms 10, Legs 10 armour, so their overall defense value is 18/20.
 

I think it was "just" 10 for the Body and 8 everywhere else, so 16/18 - but still shooting to 18/20 once they begin purchasing Toughness advances, of course.


Edited by Lynata, 09 November 2013 - 09:49 AM.

current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#18 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:46 PM

First, I apologize for confrontational tone before.

 

However, here is how a battle between the archetypal Brother Agamor and Four Sisters of Battle (Sisters Agnes, Bertha, Cindy, and Dasha) actually plays out.

 

I actually wasted half an hour of my life on this.

 

For Brother Agamor's stats, I used the stats for a Space Marine in Black Crusade using power armour with all working subsystems (note BTW that Space Marines in BC/OW do not have invulnerability to Blood Loss). For the Sisters, I used the Battle Sisters stats in Rising Tempest, but giving their boltgun the stats from Black Crusade and Only War. Note that they all have Mighty Shot.

 

I see, reexaming the stat bloc, that I actually gimped them slightly because I did not give them the +5BS for their helmets.

 

They have made a Gentleman's Agreement to conduct their duel in an empty, featureless plain, standing 50 meters from each other, and to refrain from moving or engaging in Suppressing Fire or in using Fate Points (the Sisters have three each!) or corresponding Faith Powers.

 

Initative!

 

Brother Agamor has an AB of 4 and he rolls 3 + 4 = 7

 

All Battle Sisters also have an AB of 4. I will roll for them collectively because that makes things easier.  8 + 4 = 12

 

 

ROUND 1!

 

Battle Sisters all make half-action Aims and semi-auto bursts. Their chance to hit is BS45 + 10 (aim) + 10 (short range) = 65%.

 

Agnes rolls 15, which is 6 degrees of success = 3 hits. Agamor has a Dodge of 40% and rolls 68.

Bolters do 1d10+7 Pen 4 Tearing.

First hit to body: 3, 5. 6 DoS raise 3 to 6. 6 + 7 = 13 – AP6 – TB8 = 0.

Second hit to body: 6, 8. 8 + 7 = 15 – AP6 – TB8 = 1.

Third hit to one arm: 1, 7. 7 + 7 = 14 – AP4 – TB8 = 2.

RESULT: Brother Agamor takes 3 Wounds and has 17 left.

 

Bertha rolls 74 and misses

Cindy rolls 85 and misses.

Dasha rolls 30. 3 degrees of success = 2 hits. Agamor already used his Reaction and can't Dodge.

First hit is to the head. 2, 3. 3 + 7 = 10 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

Second hit is also to head. 1, 4. 4 + 7 = 11 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

 

Agamor shoots semi-auto at Agnes. His chance is the same: 65%.

His bolter is better and does 1d10+9 Pen 4 Tearing.

His roll to hit is 84%. He misses.

 

RESULTS OF ROUND ONE: SPACE MARINE HAS 17 WOUNDS. NO SISTERS HURT.

 

 

Round 2!

 

Agnes shoots. Chance to hit is the same: 65%. She rolls 17 = 5 degrees of success = 3 hits. Agamor's Dodge roll is 47 so all shots hit.

First hit to body: 1, 1. What are the odds! DoS make 1 into a 3. 3 + 7 = 10 – AP6 – TB8 = 0.

Second hit to body: 4, 9. 9 + 7 = 16 – AP6 – TB8 = 2. Agamor takes 2 wounds.

Third hit to one arm: 1, 5. 5 + 7 = 12 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

Result: Agamor is down to 15 Wounds (has lost 25% of his starting amount).

 

Bertha shoots and rolls 18 = 5 degrees of success = 3 hits. Agamor already used his Reaction.

First hit to one leg. 3, 1. DoS raise 2 to 5. 5 + 7 = 12 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

Second hit to one leg. 8, 8. 8 + 7 = 15 – AP4 – TB8 = 3. Agamor takes 3 Wounds.

Third hit to body. 9, 4. 9 + 7 = 16 – AP6 – TB8 = 2. Agamor takes 2 Wounds.

Result: Agamor is down to 10 Wounds (50% of starting total)

 

Cindy shoots and rolls 79, missing.

 

Dasha shoots and rolls 63. One degree of success = 1 hit to the body.

Damage is 3, 6. 6 + 7 = 13 – AP6 – TB8 = 0.

 

Now, Agamor shoots semi-auto at Agnes. He rolls 84. Damn.

 

 

RESULTS OF ROUND 2! Brother Agamor is at 10 Wounds, no Sisters are harmed.

 

 

ROUND 3 starts!

 

Agnes shoots again. She rolls 10 = 7 degrees of success = 3 hits. Agamor Dodges and rolls 43.

First hit is to the head. 4, 4. 7 DoS change 4 into 7. 7 + 7 = 14 – AP4 – TB8 = 2. Agamor takes 2 wounds.

Second hit is to the head. 1, 3. 3 + 7 = 10 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

Third hit is to the arm. 4, 1. 4  + 7 = 11 – AP4 – TB8 = 0.

Result: Agamor has taken 2 more Wounds and now has 8.

 

Bertha shoots and rolls 11. 6 degrees of success = 3 hits.

First to one arm. 8, 9. 9 + 7 = 16 – AP4 – TB8 = 4. Agamor takes 4 Wounds.

Second to the same arm: 1, 10. 10 + 7 = 17 – AP4 – TB8 = 5. Agamor takes 5 Wounds.

This means he is now at -1 Wound and takes a -1 Crit to the arm, which is: his hand jerks back and he takes a level of Fatigue. He also takes a d5 Crit from Righteous Fury = 1. The same result/. So he takes  another level of Fatigue.

Third hit to body. 4, 9. 9 + 7 = 16 - AP6 – TB8 = 2. Agamor takes 2 more damage. His True Grit drops this to -1, so he takes a -2 Crit effect to the body, which is: he is thrown backward 1d5 = 5 meters, taking 5 levels of Fatigue, and is Prone.

Result: Agamor is at a -2 Crit level, has 7 levels of Fatigue, and is Prone.

 

Cindy now shoots. Agamor is now Prone and not in short range, so her chance to his is BS45 + 10 (half action aim) = 55 – 10 (prone) = 45%. She rolls 92.

Dasha does the same thing. She rolls 75.

 

Agamor goes. He decides to stay Prone, reducing his profile. He half-action aims at Agnes and makes a semi-auto burst. BS45 + 10 (haa) = 55 – 10 since he's Fatigued = 45% and he rolls 19. That's 3 degrees of success = 2 hits. Agnes Dodges and rolls 56.

She takes one hit to the left leg. Damage is 1d10+9 Pen 4 Tearing; her base AP is 7 and her TB is 3. 3, 2. DoS raise to 2 to 3. 3 + 9 = 12 – AP3 – TB3 = 6. She takes 6 Wounds and has 13 left.

Second hit to the left leg. 8, 8. 8 + 9 = 17 – AP3 – TB3 – 11. She takes 11 Wounds and has 2 left.

 

RESULTS OF ROUND 3: AGAMOR IS AT -2, IS PRONE, AND HAS 7 LEVELS OF FATIGUE. SISTER AGNES HAS 2 WOUNDS; ALL OTHER SISTERS OF BATTLE UNHURT.

 

 

Round 4 starts!

 

Agnes shoots back. BS45 + 10 (haa) = 55 – 10 (prone target) = 45%. She rolls 100. Her gun jams!

 

Bertha shoots: rolls 42. 1 degree of success. Agamor's Dodge is 40 – 10 (Fatigue) – 20 (Prone) = 10% and he rolls 89.

One hit to the left arm. 7, 7. 7 + 7 = 14 – AP4 – TB8 = 2. Agamor's True Grit drops this to -1, which puts him at a -3 Critical level. His bolter is destroyed, he loses a finger, and his WS and BS drop by 1d10 = 7.

Result: Agamor is at -3, has no boltgun, and has a BS of 38 (albteit his pain suppressors protect him from this). He has 7 levels of Fatigue.

Cindy shoots. Rolls 05. That's 5 degrees of success = 3 hits.

First hit to body: 9, 3. 9 + 7 = 16 – AP6 – TB8 = 2. That's 2 damage, reduced by True Grit to -1. Agamor takes a -4 Critical Effect, which is: Agamor is knocked back another 1d5 = 1 meter and is Stunned for 1 round.

Second hit to body: 8, 9. 9 + 7 = 16 – AP6 – TB8 = 2. That's 2 damage, reduced by True Grit to -1. Agamor takes a -5 Critical Effect, which is: Agamor must take a Toughness Test or suffer Blood Loss and take 1 permanent Toughness damage. He rolls 80 and his Toughness drops forever to 39. He also takes another 1d5 = 5 levels of Fatigue , meaning he now has 12 levels of Fatigue and is knocked unconscious.

Since he is unconscious and dying, his Cys-An Membrane activates.

 

COMBAT ENDS!

 

RESULTS: Brother Agamor is unconscious and entering suspended animation. He ended up at a -5 Critical Level with 12 Fatigue. No Sisters have entered the Critical Level. This took 20 seconds.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 09 November 2013 - 04:49 PM.


#19 Elior

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

Even if the Battle Brother hit each round, he would have likely only taken down one of the Sisters.



#20 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:20 PM

Even if the Battle Brother hit each round, he would have likely only taken down one of the Sisters.

 

Right. Generic Sisters of Battle have 19 Wounds. It is possible for him to kill one in one semi-auto burst but unlikely.

 

If the Sisters had been allowed to use their Fate Points (of which they have 3 each!) the match would have been quite one-sided indeed.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 09 November 2013 - 04:21 PM.





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