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Confused about when red (master) monsters can be placed.


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#1 Exsellcior

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

So my game group just started the campaign for this awesome game. So far we've played three maps. I am playing as he OL (which makes me the de facto DM) and I had a couple of question to clarify some rules.

1. When can red monsters be placed? Are these only placed when the map specifically says to do so? Or when a monster group is placed during setup or when reinforcement happens can I choose a master monster (respecting group limits of course)? Example: during set up I choose to use the goblin monster group. Do I place all 4 tan minion monster plus the red master monster? Totaling 5 goblins. Or only the 4 tan goblin figures? Likewise, if the master monster is killed, can I reinforce by placing the red monster down?

2. Can surges be spent on special attack actions? Or only regular attack actions? My play group wasn't sure about this. Some actions heroes and monster can perform do an attack as part of their ability and we weren't sure if surges could be spent on those actions.

Any advice regarding these questions is greatly appreciated.

#2 Kunzite

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:43 PM

1. When can red monsters be placed? Are these only placed when the map specifically says to do so? Or when a monster group is placed during setup or when reinforcement happens can I choose a master monster (respecting group limits of course)? Example: during set up I choose to use the goblin monster group. Do I place all 4 tan minion monster plus the red master monster? Totaling 5 goblins. Or only the 4 tan goblin figures? Likewise, if the master monster is killed, can I reinforce by placing the red monster down?

 

Unless the rules say other wise, your open group is all minion (tan) and master (red) monsters. Again, unless the rules say otherwise, you can reinforce any of these colored beasts, including the red guy. ^.~ enjoy

 

 

2. Can surges be spent on special attack actions? Or only regular attack actions? My play group wasn't sure about this. Some actions heroes and monster can perform do an attack as part of their ability and we weren't sure if surges could be spent on those actions.

 

Anytime an attack is made, the attacker can use those surges associated with that figure.

 

hope that helps.


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#3 Exsellcior

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:56 PM

Great! That evens the odds a bit in favor if the OL. Thanks!

#4 Kunzite

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:26 PM

That it does. Happy hunting >}


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#5 griton

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

1. When can red monsters be placed? Are these only placed when the map specifically says to do so? Or when a monster group is placed during setup or when reinforcement happens can I choose a master monster (respecting group limits of course)? Example: during set up I choose to use the goblin monster group. Do I place all 4 tan minion monster plus the red master monster? Totaling 5 goblins. Or only the 4 tan goblin figures? Likewise, if the master monster is killed, can I reinforce by placing the red monster down?

 

Monster groups are dependent on the number of hero characters. If you look at the bottom of the back of the Goblin Archer card, you'll see three sets of numbers, representing the group limits for 2-, 3-, and 4-hero groups respectively. You only use all of the figures if you are playing with 4 heroes. If you only have 2, you use 2 minion goblin archers and 1 master goblin archer. For 3 heroes, it's 3 and 1; and 4 heroes is 4 and 1.

 

Depending on the monster group, sometimes you'll have a master and sometimes you won't. e.g. Ettins: 2 heroes = 1 minion ettin; 3 heroes = 1 master ettin; 4 heroes = 1 of each. 

 

When it comes to adding monsters (either during quest-defined reinforcement or from some other ability) while respecting group limits, you essentially have 2 sub-groups within your monster group: minions and masters. If the number of creatures currently on the board for either of these sub-groups is LESS THAN (not less than or equal to) the number on the card for the appropriate number of heroes playing (not necessarily alive or on the board at the moment), you can place one figure from that sub-group on the board as indicated by the rules in the quest / ability.

 

If you are NOT respecting group limits (there are some cases for this), you are still limited by the figure limit, which is the 4-hero equivalent for everything outside the conversion kit (and even then, it's not clear if you should also limit these to the 4-hero value).


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#6 Exsellcior

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

Thanks Griton. I appreciate the detailed explanation.

#7 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

If you are NOT respecting group limits (there are some cases for this), you are still limited by the figure limit, which is the 4-hero equivalent for everything outside the conversion kit (and even then, it's not clear if you should also limit these to the 4-hero value).

Question!

Master Sorcerers have Undying, while minion ones don't. If a hero kills the master one first, does Undying trigger? Since all the minion monsters are alive, he has no figure of his own to become.



#8 griton

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 08:56 AM

Master Sorcerers have Undying, while minion ones don't. If a hero kills the master one first, does Undying trigger? Since all the minion monsters are alive, he has no figure of his own to become.

 

I believe Sorcerers are one of those exceptions where, if you got them from Descent 1e, you may have more figures than the 4-hero limit. If this is the case, it's unclear, but it probably would. If there are only enough figures to fill-out the 4-hero group size, then according to RAW, it would not trigger.



#9 Cursain

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

According to Justin, you would have to obey "figure" limitations of the group size, and can ignore the printed group size.  Please reference:

 

http://boardgamegeek...rage-rise-again



#10 Steve-O

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:39 PM

According to Justin, you would have to obey "figure" limitations of the group size, and can ignore the printed group size.  Please reference:

 

http://boardgamegeek...rage-rise-again

 

So the question then becomes, what is the "figure limit" for D1E figures being used in D2 via Conversion Kit?  Is it the number of figures provided in 1E, or is it the maximum number of figures indicated by the 4-hero group limit on the back of the 2E monster card?

 

D2E figure counts all top out at the 4-hero group limit (naturally.)  On the other hand, one could reasonably argue that since the Conversion Kit is intended to "convert" 1E to 2E, the 1E figure limits apply.  I know where I stand, and I'm hanging on to ALL my kobolds! :P


Edited by Steve-O, 15 October 2013 - 05:39 PM.





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