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LotR LCG 2.0


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#1 tripecac

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

Imagine this:

 

FFG releases a 2.0 version of the LotR LCG series with the following changes:

 

1) rules revised and expanded to include/incorporate post-release FAQs, rulings, etc.

2) Core Set now includes 3 copies of each Core card

3) all cards updated with errata

 

4) rules include nightmare and easy modes

5) all cards marked with difficulty (for easy mode)

 

6) nightmare cards included

7) rules include campaign mode (for all quests, not just later quests)

8) new Boon/Burden cards added to all quests (or any other cards used by campaigns)

 

 

Additionally, it would be great if all the 2.0 expansions and quests could be bundled in one big box set.  So, for a reasonable price someone could get the entire LotR LCG series released so far, in an upgraded format.  The bundling would appeal to newbies, and the card upgraded would appeal to existing fans.

 

For added incentive the box set could also include:

 

9) LotR LCG card sleeves

10) LotR LCG play mat

11) art booklet

12) 1 year OCTGN subscription

 

 

What do you think?

 

What else could be thrown into the 2.0 box set (or individual quest packs) to make you want to buy it?

 

And how much would you be willing to pay for all this?


Edited by tripecac, 05 October 2013 - 11:49 AM.


#2 Sephirex

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:06 PM

It'd be cool, but I think those who'd be interested in this stuff already have all the cores they need, and those who are starting new might be overwhelmed by the contents of the box and intimidated by the much higher price point.

 

 

 


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#3 mr.thomasschmidt

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

Nothing. If I was a newbie I wouldn't pay any price that would justify all that in one package. What if I did not like the game? What you describe would cost not under $200 as a start prise. With 12 adventure packs and 5 delux expansions. And 1 year subscription on the pirate page octgn?? Octgn don't respect FFGs rule about cards being for at least 6 moths before releasing them into the various online play sites. AND if octgn begins making money on this FFG will have them shut down very quickly. Just see what happened to the first iso app that made money via adds. A month or so and FFG had is removed. So with all respect for you I think this would be a bad idea in almost every aspect. I like the idea of cause but I will never and can never happen. Only the errata part and the nightmare/easy part is possible.
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#4 tripecac

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:37 AM

Okay, then, how about just these bits:

 

LotR LCG 1.1 Patch

 

1) rules revised and expanded to include/incorporate post-release FAQs, rulings, etc.

2) rules include nightmare and easy modes

3) rules include campaign mode (for all quests, not just later quests)

 

4) "missing" cards from Core Set (so that there are 3 copies of each)

5) new versions of cards which have had errata applied

6) new versions of cards which need a difficulty indicator (for Easy mode)

7) nightmare cards included

8) new Boon/Burden cards added to all quests (or any other cards used by campaigns)

 

This would allow the early quests to "catch up" with the later quests in terms of correctness, convenience, and (in the case of campaign mode) game play depth.

 

 

(Sorry to have mentioned OCTGN.  While I like the convenience of OCTGN, I personally think it's weird that they are charging people to play their borderline illegal product, and I would never pay OCTGN unless FFG actively endorsed them, which would probably not happen unless FFG received money from each OCTGN subscription.  My mention of a "1 year OCGTN subscription" was basically wishful thinking that FFG and OCTGN would find a mutually beneficial business relationship.)


Edited by tripecac, 06 October 2013 - 09:37 AM.


#5 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:56 AM

Your suggestion is not economically viable for FFG.

And OCTGN does not charges anybody. You can use it for free. Subscription is a form to donation to the developers of OCTGN for their work.


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#6 tripecac

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:23 PM

Your suggestion is not economically viable for FFG.

So you don't think enough fans would buy the "patch" set to offset the production costs?

 

And OCTGN does not charges anybody. You can use it for free. Subscription is a form to donation to the developers of OCTGN for their work.

OCTGN has recently made some of their features subscription-only.  An example is saving search filters; I'd love to be able to save and load set-based searches (e.g., all packs through mirkwood), but we need to pay in order to access that feature.  The minimum payment is $3 per month.



#7 mr.thomasschmidt

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:47 AM

Your suggestion is not economically viable for FFG.

So you don't think enough fans would buy the "patch" set to offset the production costs?
 

And OCTGN does not charges anybody. You can use it for free. Subscription is a form to donation to the developers of OCTGN for their work.

OCTGN has recently made some of their features subscription-only.  An example is saving search filters; I'd love to be able to save and load set-based searches (e.g., all packs through mirkwood), but we need to pay in order to access that feature.  The minimum payment is $3 per month.
Big mistake. Now FFG has a reason to shot them down. Happened before. Event though they don't sell FFG products they earn money by distribute the possibility to play their game without the need to buy the packs. If they had a filter so you couldn't play with cards that haven't been in sale for at least 6 months then maybe FFG would let it pas. But since that isn't the case octgn has just pushed the limit. This will be their downfall. Too bad
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#8 Internutt

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

Updated rulebook/challenge decks to include easy/difficult scenarios I can see happening.

 

Everything else you describe could easily slap a £60 price tag onto the box. Extra cards for a complete set, that's what, another 70 cards to fit in the box? Another set of markers/dials to support 4 players instead of 2? Extra cost/box space. Extra costs to making new artwork for the challenge decks, plus extra cards added to them would also increase the cost.

 

The LotR LCG box is fine as it is. An introduction to the game, which is what FFG want with those products.

 

AGoT and CoC pretty much only have 1x of each card in those boxes and those haven't been reprinted with 2x each card or whatever. Star Wars is the kindest of the LCGs, where it does include 1x each Objective Set, you can get a complete selection for the cost of a second core set, without anything missing.

 

I think the only major reprints that have happened is when they swapped the Chapter Pack model from 40 cards to 60. Along with changing up the Greyjoy/Martell packs into the modern way of doing big box expansions.

 

Saying all that, I do agree with one of your ideas.

 

I'd love for a "Cycle Box" expansion, maybe the same size as the current LotR board game box size, that simply include every card in a cycle in a single easy to purchase box, instead of hunting down 6 different small expansions. Of course, that would be more expensive to FFG than the current model. To increase the speed of reprints, Star Wars is changing into PoD clamshells instead of the usual cardboard packs, which does sound interesting.



#9 shipwreck

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:42 AM

The "patch" you speak of isn't a bad idea. I'd probably buy it, especially since I only own one core set.

 

This kind of thing isn't unthinkable, as they've re-released stuff for the other LCGs. It's not that big a step away.


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#10 Memetix

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:08 AM

As the person responsible for the LotR implementation on OCTGN over the last year I'd like to clarify the roll-out process as some of the statements made in earlier posts contradict my understanding of this process

 

Card images are made available 6 months after release and at an image size agreed with FFG.

 

Full card text (actions/responses/shadow effects etc.) is made available 3 months after release.

 

OCTGN is a generic program to play card based games over the internet. It allows third party developers (like me) to implement and play their favourite games using a documented API and I make every effort to comply with FFG's wishes regarding use of their copyright material. I have no commercial connection with the OCTGN developers and do not charge for, nor make money from, the use of the Lord of the Rings plug-in for OCTGN.

 

I've met some great players and played some amazing multi-player games of Lord of the Rings using OCTGN and I would hate to see tighter restrictions placed on its use based on incomplete information.



#11 tripecac

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

Thanks for the clarification, Memetix.

 

It would be great if FFG could make a statement saying that the OCTGN LotR LCG plugin is "okay" with them, even if the main OCTGN package is [partly] paid.  If there is some sort of reassurance from FFG that the OCGTN plugin has a [legitimate] future, I'd consider subscribing to OCTGN.  However, right now, my gut feeling is that OCTGN is treading on thin ice, and that even if FFG isn't the company that shuts them down, some other company might. 

 

If OCTGN gets shut down, would you continue developing the plugin for the last working version of it?  Or would you call it a day?



#12 mr.thomasschmidt

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:14 AM

As the person responsible for the LotR implementation on OCTGN over the last year I'd like to clarify the roll-out process as some of the statements made in earlier posts contradict my understanding of this process
 
Card images are made available 6 months after release and at an image size agreed with FFG.
 
Full card text (actions/responses/shadow effects etc.) is made available 3 months after release.
 
OCTGN is a generic program to play card based games over the internet. It allows third party developers (like me) to implement and play their favourite games using a documented API and I make every effort to comply with FFG's wishes regarding use of their copyright material. I have no commercial connection with the OCTGN developers and do not charge for, nor make money from, the use of the Lord of the Rings plug-in for OCTGN.
 
I've met some great players and played some amazing multi-player games of Lord of the Rings using OCTGN and I would hate to see tighter restrictions placed on its use based on incomplete information.

Sorry but that contradicts what you see in the videos on YouTube. Lots of times I have watched people play adventures on octgn that was only a week of two old. Maybe you respect FFG but then someone else are tempering with the plugin and that still won't hinder companies in shotting down octgn.

#13 Memetix

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:48 PM

Since anyone can add scans of their own cards to OCTGN for personal use I would image that is what has happened in those circumstances.



#14 faith_star83

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

Well, to get back to topic: I think this is a nice idea, but I can see no reason for FFG to do this...the errata for cards are incorporated into reprints afaik anyway. And the core set provides a good beginning point for new players without straining the budget too much. As has been said before, few people are willing to pay more than 40 bucks to try out a new game, so you're deluxe box caters to a marginality only, so there is no business case behind this.

 

What I'd really like though are these cycle boxes, once the whole cycle comes out, but again I don't see this happen. A store in Switzerland offers all six packs of a cycle for the Warhammer game as a package and you even save 10% on single purchase of the APs. I think this is a valid strategy for the retailers, but maybe not so much something that FFG would actively push forward. Again there is no real business case for FFG behind, but for retailers it can be worth the while to offer such packages...



#15 tripecac

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

It seems a shame that the long-time fans, who have been buying the cards as soon as they are released, have to live with the pre-errata text, while the newbies get to buy the "corrected" reprints (assuming that the reprints have errata applied).  This discourages early adoption, since in the long run, it is more economical (and less frustrating) to avoid initial prints, and to instead wait for the reprints.

 

The errata and the fact that the core set does not contain 3 of each card, combine to encourage people to avoid the physical cards altogether, and just play virtually, with OCTGN or LackeyCCG, which have no card limits and can be kept up to date with the latest errata.

 

I for one only play virtually these days; I don't bother with the physical cards anymore.  I still buy the cards (since I am a collector and a bit of a goodie-goodie), but I know many people stopped buying the cards once they learned the advantages of playing virtually: up-to-date text, 3 of each card, no need for card sleeves to hold proxy and errata info. 

 

Note: I also find it very interesting how heavily FFG promotes their card sleeves; the errata and less-than-3 card counts in the core set help encourage the use of card sleeves.  More errata equals more sleeves, which equals more money for FFG.

 

I am also hesitant to teach anyone to play with the physical cards, since they are out of date and incomplete. 

 

It would be great if FFG could "patch" their cards, by selling a bundle which corrects the problems and omissions which exist in the first print run:

 

- errata

- 3 of each card in core set

- difficulty icons (for easy mode)

- revised rulebook

 

Since those fixes by themselves might not be sufficient to entice long-time fans to purchase the patch, FFG could throw in some extras:

 

- nightmare cards (already designed)

- boons/burdens for early scenarios (requires design)

 

They could also throw in a play mat or some other cool item that fans would love to get. 

 

If the above bundle has a decent price, I'm sure they could get fans to buy.

 

But if the above bundle never exists, and fans are stuck with an incomplete and increasingly out of date set of physical cards, more and more people will simply move to OCGTN and LackeyCCG, and of those people, only a subset will continue paying for cards.  Even worse, the long-time fans will encourage newbies to play virtually as well, since the physical cards are "broken".  And those newbies will have no incentive to every pay FFG or anything.

 

I think errata and incompleteness are the worst things about LotR LCG.

 

And honestly, if someone asked me about LotR LCG today, I would encourage them to play OCGTN instead of buying the real cards, because of the errata/incompleteness issue. 

 

If FFG can fix the problem (by issuing a "patch" or a complete/up-to-date "2.0" version), then I will once again recommend the physical cards.  But right now, the physical version of the core set is frustratingly "broken", so I cannot recommend it as a starting point to someone just getting interested in the game. 






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