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#1 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

This group I handpicked finally allowed me to win a Base game + Innsmouth with both Heralds in play. 3 other games with a completely different group ended very badly ( DOR track filling) but in two of those cases Mythos luck was extremely bad.

 

I didn't want to use Silas so instead used these people.

 

Patrice-Mandy-Thomas Muldoon-Darrell Simmons

 

I'm going to play with a newbie friend soon but a guy who is an outstanding gamer generally and I'm sure will pick this game up immediately. I may not use both Heralds but even so will probably suggest this group as an intro to the game. Might even be too easy for him. If it seems  too early to use Innsmouth I am confident with my experience and some play aids I have acquired he'll be able to handle it. 

 

Given the scenario I outlined above--and yes we use PS but will probably randomize an AO from the Innsmouth group and no victory from beating AO in final combat--if anyone can suggest a stronger group feel free to comment.


Edited by jackman51, 05 October 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#2 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:26 AM

Patrice - Mandy - Hank (the perfect monster whacker) - and a fourth one, I don't know who I'll exactly pick up. Akachi, Minh, Joe or Roland are good choices, it depends on the AO you'll be facing. If you do not have much time (like you're playing Rhan), I'd go with Joe. Or Roland. One of these.


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#3 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:48 AM

I went with Thomas because of his immunity to arrest and his PS resolution effect. Also his monster magnet ability since I invariably end up with piles of monsters in Innsmouth. But Sampson is certainly good as well because of his cool ability to ignore Horror checks ( or is that someone else).

 

I did have Akachi last game but probably because of the asinine number of monsters I had in Innsmouth the first few turns she ended up being far less effective than she should have been--but again a solid choice. Joe's always good and Roland is also a nice choice instead of perhaps Darrell. I always like Darrell for encounter control.


Edited by jackman51, 05 October 2013 - 02:16 PM.


#4 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 10:53 AM

Indeed, Darrell's one of my fave. Point is that they messed him up with his PS (Patrice helps, but doesn't solve the darrellian equation). Some guys here tend to reword his PS fail condition with "6 clues" instead of "5".


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#5 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

Indeed, Darrell's one of my fave. Point is that they messed him up with his PS (Patrice helps, but doesn't solve the darrellian equation). Some guys here tend to reword his PS fail condition with "6 clues" instead of "5".

 Yeah true but I think passing his PS isn't critical and failing it doesn't seem like any real problem. Nice to have that retainer to stave off the effects of a bank loan default and even to ensure easy movement to Innsmouth. I'm hoping though that the game will end quickly enough that neither of these will have a decisive effect.

 

Every time I think of Joe I keep thinking of preparing for the AO right away ( which I don't want to do) or feel I should accumulate clues on him in case I do need to face the AO cuz things go badly which of course makes it tough for the others to get clues themselves. I guess I just don't like the conundrum he gives me in my games to date.


Edited by jackman51, 05 October 2013 - 11:22 AM.


#6 Avi_dreader

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

Patrice - Mandy - Hank (the perfect monster whacker) - and a fourth one, I don't know who I'll exactly pick up. Akachi, Minh, Joe or Roland are good choices, it depends on the AO you'll be facing. If you do not have much time (like you're playing Rhan), I'd go with Joe. Or Roland. One of these.

Nah.  I'd go for Wendy.  That's three more easy seals you can get with her ;'D And a slowed down doom track.  Eaaaaaasy win.

I'd actually rather play Marie than Hank though.  Possibly Roland.  Looooots of clues to work with... Disgusting, isn't it? ;'D


Edited by Avi_dreader, 05 October 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#7 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

Totally. I forgot about Wendy. Clearly she's the perfect fourth one :)


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#8 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Well actually there is a problem and that would be...  ... Who's Wendy or Marie? I don't have either one in Innsmouth or the Base set. I only plan to use those two parts of the overall game since I don't have the rest yet--working on that.


Edited by jackman51, 05 October 2013 - 02:32 PM.


#9 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

Correct, sorry Jackman, I forgot you missed a couple of expansions. Wendy's from KH, while Marie arrived with DH :)


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#10 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:08 PM

Np--guess I could have said to others that I wasn't going to use other expansion components.

 

Looking at Wendy why can you seal three gates with her present in the group? Or were you kidding? She does seem like  the perfect evader though but her PS doesn't impress.

 

Marie's third arm seems interesting indeed and she has a decent Will. High Combat numbers possible for destroying especially tough beasties.



#11 jackman51

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:09 PM

Avi which group did you use for your run through your scenarios?



#12 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:42 PM

Wendy starts with eight clues (3 from her fixed possessions + 5 because she has an ES). This means that by the end of the first turn, she has clues enough to seal 2 gates, and this makes her one of the most formidable characters ever. Additionally, she can autoevade any monster in a street area: which is good, because by the end of Mythos Phase 1, you probably have an unguarded gate because monsters went picnicking somewhere.

 

Marie's great because she has a PS that is totally easy to pass, AND after she passes, she can remove two doomer from the doom track. After that, you can use her as shark food.

 

So Marie + Wendy = PS passed & ES = 3 doomers removed from the doom track, hence it's like the AO has space on his track for three more doomers before waking up. Which means you really can't lose *any* game, especially  because, with Patrice in, you simply have to have your characters diving into gates as fast as they can. End of the story.


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#13 Julia

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:47 PM

And if you're interested in League stories, you can read here. Plus there is a thread on the main page of the main forum started by Dj (My fun with the Arkham League, IIRC) where he posts his chronicles, and another one started by Eagermind called "Surviving Avi's League" in the Fan Creations section


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#14 jackman51

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

Okay I missed the fact that Wendy starts with an Elder Sign. I actually really don't care for this as yes it's an easy seal, It's part of the reason I wouldn't use Silas because I think his PS success was too strong. It would be even worse if someone else started with a random Elder Sign as well. But I asked for a dream team so she would be a part of it if I were using other non-Innsmouth characters. I'm somewhat surprised the designers would start anyone with an ES at all even a random one as let's face it even Vincient looks a lot better with one in his starting arsenal. Wendy's penalty for failing her PS is also fairly trivial though she's hardly alone. I think I'd probably put her in instead of Darrell then and once Thomas gets his easy Deputy status I'd have two characters running through the streets with ease and two that cannot be arrested--perfect for Innsmouth.

 

I agree Marie taking off two doomers is tough. However the perhaps odd thing for me in the probably 25 solitaire games I have played ( and I wouldn't presume to have yours or any anyone else's expertise or experience level on these forums but don't consider myself a bad player by any means)  is that I have never lost by awakening the AO through the Doom Track, not because I beat them in final combat but because the track has never filled. Every time I have played with both Heralds, as my scenario conditions specify,  it was because the DOR track filled and several times I was put in trouble up there almost from the get go--two gates opening in Innsmouth with those same Mythos cards dropping more monsters into the streets--**** in one game by turn 4 there were nearly 20 monsters there and that's after me killing a half dozen. That's an extreme case to be sure but lesser but still severely threatening numbers seem to occur with regularity. At times when a see an early Devil's Reef or Yth especially if it gets a surge I feel like placing my head between my legs and kissing my arse goodbye. Frustrating given the time it takes to set up this game. I guess perhaps I may now be oversensitive to Innsmouth monsters so that's why at least until I add more expansion cards and/or investigators I'm going to keep Tommy. Besides he too can take a doomer off even if he has to die to do it.

 

Excellent suggestions though and will be sure to employ at least some of them in a different game.

 

I don't yet want to read through the League results until I get the rest of the game. I'm more interested in knowing whether most of the participants are hand-picking a team throughout all the scenarios. From what little I have read though it seems that the scenarios themselves limit your choices of investigators and/or items. This I applaud.


Edited by jackman51, 06 October 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#15 Julia

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 05:31 PM

Yes, Scenarios have a pool of investigators to choose from, and there are special rules on what can be carried over (there were Leagues where you were allowed to carry over *everything* - French 2nd League for instance; needless to say, once you were a little skilled with the game, everything was so totally boring that it wasn't worth really playing them).

 

As for the doom track not filling up: first of all, the doom track very often fills up if you don't know what you're doing, and start closing gates without having enough clues to seal. This is the typical noob error, but it's not your case. Then, the doom track can become a problem mostly because some nefarious Mythos cards adding two doomers to the doom track (mostly rumors, but add MH in the mix and you'll see some HEADLINES adding two doomers), rifts moving (Kingsport Horror), more unstable locations (add Dunwich) and so on. Point is that games only with core Arkham and Innsmouth are somehow lighter on the doom track: in Innsmouth and Arkham you have a total of six high freq unstable locations (Independence Square, Witch House, Unvisited Isle, Woods, Esoteric order of Dagon, Devil Reef), so that the other unstable locations are somehow less threatening, and if you're playing wisely you can really control everything, so that the DOR is actually more a problem than the doom track. Plus, it depends also on the AO you're playing with: if you go with Cthulhu, you'll have much an easier life than if you go with Rhan or Yig. Plus, there are some AOs in Dunwich and Kingsport you'll have a nightmarish time against.

 

Out of curiosity: when you play Dagon, do you remember to add a doom token every time the terror level rises and at least one investigator can't discard any clue? I found Dagon games to be a little more challenging for the doom track (nothing that you can't handle properly, but still)

 

Finally, if you're going to play with your friend and he's good, don't go with the dream time. Go with something like Roland, Hank, Minh, Norman. They are great, but if leave Patrice at home, everyone'll have a better time, I think :)


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#16 jackman51

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:19 PM

 

Out of curiosity: when you play Dagon, do you remember to add a doom token every time the terror level rises and at least one investigator can't discard any clue? I found Dagon games to be a little more challenging for the doom track (nothing that you can't handle properly, but still)

 

 

Absolutely so--the last game I played the terror level never rose at all. More gates opened with few monster surges. The game before that it rose only once primarily because I had a huge number of monsters in Innsmouth most of whom were flooding from the Esoteric Order. That one occasion though came at a very bad time and prevented a gate from being sealed. I also remember to add a monster to the Outskirts when someone goes unconscious, Insane, or whatever else relevant. But I hope I didn't give you the impression that those 25 games were all double heralded--only the last 4 were and three of those were defeats , 2 because of the DOR and 1 for gate openings. The rest were mixes of Base + Innsmouth or just Base.

 

I have no doubt over your assertion that more cards from other expansions will pressure the Doom track more but of course then I will get those nice investigators too. I'm not a big fan of mixing in cards from other expansions unless I am using all elements of that said expansion. I think Innsmouth has one double doomer and I think I even drew it when I had the Dream members but I also eventually acquired two ES. This also must factor in when there are more expansions--I'm presuming that as more cards are added to the Unique Item deck the ratio of ES cards must drop making it ever harder to get those key ES cards which turn back the doom track. I will see all this for myself when I get more expansions--I am following this on EBAY right now

 

http://www.ebay.com/...s-/181230782896

 

But as of my current situation I consider this team sound but as per suggestions I may use Roland instead of Darrell. (Somehow I think I should get a free Feds Raid Innsmouth with Roland :)).

 

Okay I believe I will accept your team suggestion with my friend and go from there. Do you think this group is strong versus 2 Heralds or should I confine it to 1 or none?



#17 Julia

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:33 AM

Go with one Herald only, and see how it goes :) Or two with Cthulhu in play. It's an interesting game :)

 

Additionally, I thought a little more about what you said about the doom track. Actually, it's no mystery at all: Innsmouth Mythos deck has gates opening in Innsmouth only, and not in Arkham, so:

 

a) you won't have any gate burst in Arkham. This increases the threat represented by the DOR, but doesn't bother you with "hey buddy, five extra clues and 3 turns spent to explore the new gate".

b) gate bursts in Innsmouth: Y'han can't burst, and there is only one card bursting Marsh, so these seals are almost "safe"

c) there are no cards modifying the odds of having a gate opening in the lower freq location, so that in the *whole* deck you have only 2 cards opening gates at Y'hanthley, Historical Society, Silver Twilight Lodge, Hibb's Roadhouse and Science Building. This means you have 6 high freq locations and 5 medium freq locations, which means 11 doom token total. The odds of drawing double doomers rumor are quite low (around 2%, I should do the math but I'm lazy right now), so if you're playing long track AOs it's quite easy the doom track isn't really dangerous.

 

PS: Innsmouth has certainly TWO cards adding two doom tokens, The Innsmouth Plague and Plans in Motion. Still, too few to really threaten you


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#18 Schwaig

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:56 AM

--I'm presuming that as more cards are added to the Unique Item deck the ratio of ES cards must drop making it ever harder to get those key ES cards which turn back the doom track. 

There is one extra ES in Kingsport. But still the chance to find one drops from 10,26% to 4,42% with all expansions in play (if you would draw one Unique Item from the whole pile).


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#19 jackman51

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:13 AM

Yes to both of the above posts. Yet even though you should be pretty safe from the Doom Track if I use both Heralds I feel like every turn I can be defeated almost instantly starting with the setup. All you have to have happen is a "set-up" monster surge in Yth or the Reef with a couple of monsters moving in tornadoes and already the DOR sits at 4 and the game is now telling you where to go instead of the other way around. I may be quite unlucky but multiple gates in the early turns in Innsmouth happens to me quite a bit. If a gate opens in the Reef it's really panic time because you can't even get to Yth anymore until the Reef gate is closed. Too bad if you don't have clues enough to seal--I feel like I have to go in anyway to stop any more monster surge hops into twisters. Technically you should post someone on Yth at all times before a seal but who really can afford that with 4 investigators. In all cases you need to watch your money just to make sure you can get to Innsmouth and then the Reef itself. That fact makes it just a bit harder to get ES draws going in the Curiositee Shoppe even with Bank Loans which you may never get the time to get.  The last game I managed to win I had to contend with Cthuga's ridiculous movement penalties too.

 

Yeah I can't wait to add even more pressure to all of this with another expansion. And even fewer ES draw chances-(Wendy and Silas lookin even better now) :huh:

 

I'm a bit antsy about trying this with even one herald with my friend--and certainly not Dagon-because as has been pointed out repeatedly losing a game with a newbie discourages further play. I know he's mentally up for the challenge but I'm fearful that bad early luck will make the situation untenable before we practically even make a move or two and I won't feel like there was anything I could do about it. I need to think some more on this--maybe some mulligans?


Edited by jackman51, 07 October 2013 - 11:14 AM.


#20 jackman51

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:34 PM

And damn it...I didn't get my Ebay item again......(WHINE....sucks lollipop).......

 

Okay with regard to these FFG reprints should I wait for these and buy 'em new or keep waiting on Ebay. Will the reprint changes be anything more than Cosmetic?


Edited by jackman51, 07 October 2013 - 12:34 PM.





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