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Librarian Chaplains


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#1 Theofonias

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:57 AM

I just started playing in a game and made a Librarian.  I considered his career path and stopped on Chaplain.  It just fit his personality that he'd be chosen for something like this.  Then I remembered the limits of who can be Chaplains and sure enough Librarians were one of them.  I wonder why that is.  I mean there are psyker Chapter Masters and dreadnoughts, why not Librarians.

 

Is there an important bit of fluff I'm missing?



#2 Meph

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:30 AM

I think the origin there is more fluff-related... Librarians are recruited as such as soon as their psychic potential is detected, usually early on during the recruitment process. They are then introduced into the Librarium, and since it's a calling all by itself, it seems very unlikely that they leave their 'brotherhood-within-a-brotherhood'. Librarian dread's are vèry rare and exceptional, and Librarians as chapter masters eaqually so. As far as I know only the Soul Drinkers (renegades), Blood Ravens, (sketchy background, lost of inner turmoil), and Death Specters (shameful dark secret of a life-sucking throne, good novel.). And of these, the SD and BR only got their Librarian chapter masters because of some sort of battlefield promotion, and the position got dumped onto them.

 

So while I wouldn't call it impossible, it would be a very rare event indeed, with sufficient consequences. Too much power and authority in one person? Lots of scrutiny from chapter/primogenitor chapter/inquisition/high lords of terra?

Could work though, if presented well.



#3 Brother Anselm

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

Weren't chaplains introduced to see to the spiritual welfare of Astartes after the convention of Nikea to make sure Librarians never succumbed to chaos/warp which they will eventually do.

 

As librarians are mutant scum psykers who should be strangled at birth admitting one into the chaplaincy would be a bit strange.


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#4 Fgdsfg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

Weren't chaplains introduced to see to the spiritual welfare of Astartes after the convention of Nikea to make sure Librarians never succumbed to chaos/warp which they will eventually do.
 
As librarians are mutant scum psykers who should be strangled at birth admitting one into the chaplaincy would be a bit strange.

While a bit.. extreme.. this is what I was thinking too. Psykers are unlikely to make good Chaplains, and the reason they aren't made into Chaplains is mostly for fluff reasons, not because they are naturally unable to handle the faithful or anything.

I could see certain Chapters having Psyker-Chaplains, though. There's a certain amount of "leeway" (some may say gulch) for the Astartes when it comes to the Imperial Faith, and they have their own unique ways to profess their faith reverence of the God-Emperor of Mankind.

Blood Ravens come to mind.


Edited by Fgdsfg, 01 October 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#5 Theofonias

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

I see your points.  My guy is a Carcharodon so I have a bit of leeway since their structure isn't made static by official fluff.



#6 Brother Anselm

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

 

Weren't chaplains introduced to see to the spiritual welfare of Astartes after the convention of Nikea to make sure Librarians never succumbed to chaos/warp which they will eventually do.
 
As librarians are mutant scum psykers who should be strangled at birth admitting one into the chaplaincy would be a bit strange.

While a bit.. extreme.. this is what I was thinking too. Psykers are unlikely to make good Chaplains, and the reason they aren't made into Chaplains is mostly for fluff reasons, not because they are naturally unable to handle the faithful or anything.

I could see certain Chapters having Psyker-Chaplains, though. There's a certain amount of "leeway" (some may say gulch) for the Astartes when it comes to the Imperial Faith, and they have their own unique ways to profess their faith reverence of the God-Emperor of Mankind.

Blood Ravens come to mind.

 

Just getting into practice for my next character a Black Templar Chaplain.

My current character, an Imperial Fist Librarian is on zero fate points, while at the beginning of the third chapter of Rising Tempest, We're still stuck in the maze, I don't see him getting out alive.



#7 Fgdsfg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

Weren't chaplains introduced to see to the spiritual welfare of Astartes after the convention of Nikea to make sure Librarians never succumbed to chaos/warp which they will eventually do.
 
As librarians are mutant scum psykers who should be strangled at birth admitting one into the chaplaincy would be a bit strange.

While a bit.. extreme.. this is what I was thinking too. Psykers are unlikely to make good Chaplains, and the reason they aren't made into Chaplains is mostly for fluff reasons, not because they are naturally unable to handle the faithful or anything.

I could see certain Chapters having Psyker-Chaplains, though. There's a certain amount of "leeway" (some may say gulch) for the Astartes when it comes to the Imperial Faith, and they have their own unique ways to profess their faith reverence of the God-Emperor of Mankind.

Blood Ravens come to mind.

Just getting into practice for my next character a Black Templar Chaplain.
My current character, an Imperial Fist Librarian is on zero fate points, while at the beginning of the third chapter of Rising Tempest, We're still stuck in the maze, I don't see him getting out alive.


Damn, just remind me that my group(s) never run the premade scenarios, why don't you..? D: Nevermind that my full experience with Deathwatch is about three sessions of chaos.

Either way, I have a hankering for playing a Blood Raven Librarian/Chaplain next to a Black Templar Chaplain, just to see how much his head would explode from sheer indignation.
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#8 Theofonias

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:35 PM

 

 

 

Weren't chaplains introduced to see to the spiritual welfare of Astartes after the convention of Nikea to make sure Librarians never succumbed to chaos/warp which they will eventually do.
 
As librarians are mutant scum psykers who should be strangled at birth admitting one into the chaplaincy would be a bit strange.

While a bit.. extreme.. this is what I was thinking too. Psykers are unlikely to make good Chaplains, and the reason they aren't made into Chaplains is mostly for fluff reasons, not because they are naturally unable to handle the faithful or anything.

I could see certain Chapters having Psyker-Chaplains, though. There's a certain amount of "leeway" (some may say gulch) for the Astartes when it comes to the Imperial Faith, and they have their own unique ways to profess their faith reverence of the God-Emperor of Mankind.

Blood Ravens come to mind.

 

Just getting into practice for my next character a Black Templar Chaplain.
My current character, an Imperial Fist Librarian is on zero fate points, while at the beginning of the third chapter of Rising Tempest, We're still stuck in the maze, I don't see him getting out alive.

 


Damn, just remind me that my group(s) never run the premade scenarios, why don't you..? D: Nevermind that my full experience with Deathwatch is about three sessions of chaos.

Either way, I have a hankering for playing a Blood Raven Librarian/Chaplain next to a Black Templar Chaplain, just to see how much his head would explode from sheer indignation.

 

Haha nice.  Just be sure to wear the skull mask under your psychic hood.  For that extra oomph. 



#9 Brother Anselm

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:37 PM

I must admit though the combo is one I'd like to play, It would be very interesting. I like the produced scenarios, Source books are ok, but give me a well written scenario every time. (Even though its usually my character who gets killed)


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#10 Morangias

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:18 PM

I'm not as versed in Space Marine fluff as some, but one thing I noticed in those novels I've read is, Space Marines tend to be as uncomfortable around psykers as other Imperials are, and it makes little difference if the psyker is a Librarian or "just" human.

 

Meanwhile, Chaplains are supposed to be inspirational figures for other marines, encouraging brotherhood and confidence as they dive headfirst into the fray with litanies of wrath on their mouths. I have a problem reconciling this role with being someone who inherently makes brothers wary of himself.


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#11 Theofonias

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:27 PM

I'm not as versed in Space Marine fluff as some, but one thing I noticed in those novels I've read is, Space Marines tend to be as uncomfortable around psykers as other Imperials are, and it makes little difference if the psyker is a Librarian or "just" human.

 

Meanwhile, Chaplains are supposed to be inspirational figures for other marines, encouraging brotherhood and confidence as they dive headfirst into the fray with litanies of wrath on their mouths. I have a problem reconciling this role with being someone who inherently makes brothers wary of himself.

 

The novels I've read Chaplains are the ones who seek out taint in their Chapters and try to save the battle-brother in question or to kill them before they fall from grace.  Marines tend to be just as wary of their Chaplains as they are of their Librarians, albeit for different reasons.  



#12 musungu

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 07:56 AM

I just started playing in a game and made a Librarian.  I considered his career path and stopped on Chaplain.  It just fit his personality that he'd be chosen for something like this.  Then I remembered the limits of who can be Chaplains and sure enough Librarians were one of them.  I wonder why that is.  I mean there are psyker Chapter Masters and dreadnoughts, why not Librarians.

 

Is there an important bit of fluff I'm missing?

Sorry for necromancing the thread, but check out the Silver Skulls. Their Prognosticators fit the bill almost exactly. While they do have Chaplains in Honour the Chapter, I faintly remember some novel or short story where the description of the Prognosticator was uncannily Chaplain-like (with no mention of actual Chaplains). The fluff is there, mash up something :)



#13 Kshatriya

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

Silver Skull Librarians can become Chaplains, in the fluff at least (and I'd allow it in the game too). But there are reasons for Librarians to generally be disqualified from Chaplain service: Chaplains snuff out heresy and corruption within the Chapter to keep it morally and spiritually pure, while psykers (including Librarians) can be the greatest threats to purity with their connection to the Warp. You don't want the Watchmen needing to police themselves. That rarely goes well. I probably wouldn't let Blood Ravens break the general rule, for just that reason, and the internal hierarchy of the Chapter is savvy enough to know how its members think.


Edited by Kshatriya, 10 February 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#14 musungu

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:55 AM

Well, the Deathwatch in Headhunted (Heroes of the Space Marines) is on to something, having an Exorcist shadowing the Librarian all the time, just in case. If it wasn't so damn tiresome having a permanent NPC kill-team member, I'd emulate the practice when having a Silver Skull Librarian/Chaplain in the team. Or, even better, I'd have an Inquisitor convince or bribe (for example with better war gear) one of the players to keep an eye on the liability. Playing a Prognosticator could be an interesting challenge for both the player and the GM - I would try to corrupt the player continuously, just to see how long he can hold :)



#15 ak-73

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:19 AM

I'm not as versed in Space Marine fluff as some, but one thing I noticed in those novels I've read is, Space Marines tend to be as uncomfortable around psykers as other Imperials are, and it makes little difference if the psyker is a Librarian or "just" human.

 

Hmmm.... since I consider librarians very powerful... maybe I should slap a blanket -1 Cohesion to any kill-team including a librarian.

 

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#16 musungu

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:57 AM

I'd limit it to cases when the Librarian leads the team, if you want to do it. Or you can try it when a particularly wich-hating character leads. Otherwise I'd say let them roleplay it out. I have a Black Templar, who routinely rolls WP tests when a particularly bad psychic phenomena manifests, to stop himself attacking the witch, and it was his own idea. I like such initiatives.



#17 Theofonias

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:50 AM

I just depends on the Librarian.  My Librarian player took the name and ran with it and is a beast with all the Lores and such.  He isn't a combat monster (I mean he's still a Space Marine but you get it) and at Rank 4 has only just picked up Smite.  He has high Fellowship and is often used as the go between for the rest of the squad.  



#18 musungu

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:45 AM

I just depends on the Librarian.  

...

He has high Fellowship and is often used as the go between for the rest of the squad.  

 

I'm not dead-set on punishing Librarians, I was only musing on the possible mechanics of Alex's idea. The Librarians, while they are not necessarily loved, are respected as keepers of the lore, and they're valued leaders and advisers in virtually every chapter. Although - to get back to your original question - it would be interesting to play out the relations between a Silver Skull Prognosticator, with his unique beliefs, and the rest of the Kill-Team. The statistically-most-likely-to-be-corrupted guy chastising everyone and generally acting as Chaplain? I can see that getting under the skin of some marines. And Divination through runes or the Tarot is cool anyway.



#19 venkelos

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:51 PM

I think it helps that, at least in my opinion, the Space Marines know better who the Emperor actually was (a super-psyker) and with their ludicrously challenging training, they are willing to allow certain "abnormalities" other Imperials wouldn't tolerate to stand, since they did survive to Neophytehood. Sure, some Space Marines are as leery of psykers as the next GE-fearing Human, and the Black Templars are a Chapter of witch-watching puritans, but I think Space Marines in general, not being so weighed down by the Imperial Dogma, can see past the blanket "psykers are bad!" that the Ecclesiarchy preaches, just like many Inquisitors, and other very powerful, more in-touch with the real universe people are, can more readily gauge a person for who they are and what they do, rather than one trait they were born with. Hell, half of being a Space Marine is gaining new traits you weren't born with, and if they can tolerate flesh-eating, blood-drinking, and slowly turning Crinos werewolf Space Marines (since the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are so popular they can't be in the "regular SM Codex), it seems that something as little as psychic powers, especially known about powers, so you have been tested, and are being watched, would be no biggie.

 

Still, having a Librarian also be a Chaplain seems a bit much. Agreed, the watchers shouldn't also need watching. That said, and no they aren't typical, the Grey Knights have every type of Marine in their army, so they must have Chaplains, along with all being psykers. Still, this should be the exception, not the norm.



#20 Kshatriya

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:06 PM

 

I'm not as versed in Space Marine fluff as some, but one thing I noticed in those novels I've read is, Space Marines tend to be as uncomfortable around psykers as other Imperials are, and it makes little difference if the psyker is a Librarian or "just" human.

 

Hmmm.... since I consider librarians very powerful... maybe I should slap a blanket -1 Cohesion to any kill-team including a librarian.

 

Alex

 

Libs are not as broken as psykers are in DH. They're really not that bad. The worst part about them is some vaguely-written powers that can be interpreted broadly in an OP way.






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