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Can a voidship land on a planet?


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#1 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:37 PM

Can at least a raider class ship land on a planet?

 

Or a mass conveyor if the G is low enough?

 

HOW ARE TITANS OR ORE-SEEKERS DEPLOYED OR RETRIEVED GODDAMMIT

 

I can't find it the RT books anywhere and I couldn't find a clear answer in the forum, sorry.


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#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:51 PM

I took the time to Google it for you:

http://community.fan...ips-on-planets/

Short answer: Some can, some can't. Those that can are small enough and designed to do so. Those that can't are either too big, or simply not designed for it.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 30 September 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#3 Errant

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:04 PM

Ore-seekers and titans would likely have their own specialized transports; some variant of a halo barge would likely do the job.



#4 venkelos

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:04 AM

For the most part, I like to say no. These beasts were built in space, and for good reason. In Star Trek: The Next Generation, I believe the Enterprise was too large to take off from terra firma, and she is a bit on the small order, compared to the average void ship in 40K, where even their fighter craft are half-dozen crew each affairs. They often lack the necessary superstructure to support their bulk in gravity, and only the most reinforced surface facilities would be any less than flattened/cratered when a mile-long hunk of stuff comes to ground. The thrust needed to hoist her back into orbit would likely obliterate anything around it, like setting off a small? bomb, and there appears to be no such thing on the ventral surface, so either it's standing a mile tall, or the thrust-source is pointing so the wrong way.

 

Anything much larger than a transport, IMO, was never made to land on-planet, and never should. Of course, this is your, or your GM's call, but in a world where physics mean ha, every once in a while, they seem to fit in, again.

 

As an extra thought, one of the possible ship histories, Planet-Bound for Millennia, applies here well. Barring CATASTROPHIC damage, said ship would have just flown away, but her mass kept her firmly planted, and a small fleet of tugs was needed to drag her back into space. Gilleam from Outlaw Star also references ship repairs outside of zero-g to be problematic, so the reasons to land planetside continue to fall away.



#5 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:32 AM

Thank you very much for the lore there guys.

Maybe we could design a component in the house rules forum for enabling ships smaller than frigates to land?

Some external component that uses as assload of power and burns anything in a radio of 2km around the landing site.


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#6 Fgdsfg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:08 AM

Ore-seekers and titans would likely have their own specialized transports; some variant of a halo barge would likely do the job.

I haven't researched this, but I know that Titans have anti-grav struts and whatnot, to compensate for their enormous weight. So I think there's an argument to be made that they can be dropped "as-is" from orbit.

I am now imagining a massive, enormous mech slowly descending from the heavens, crushing houses under it's sanctified heel.

To get them up again, just have a bunch of Halo-Barges and a lot of Plasteel wires. I guess.

Thank you very much for the lore there guys.
Maybe we could design a component in the house rules forum for enabling ships smaller than frigates to land?
Some external component that uses as assload of power and burns anything in a radio of 2km around the landing site.

That's another issue you brought up right there: Landing space. Even for "small" ships, you'd need about a kilometer or two of flatland, and more importantly, something you wouldn't sink into, unless you're determined to run some kind of antigrav system at full power for what could be days.

But yeah, definitely doable. Especially with smaller ships.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 01 October 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#7 htsmithium

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

To directly answer the OP's question.

yes...once.

 

But on the more serious side, if it was a low gravity world I could see a raider doing it, if there was a cradle to hold it, or was specifically modified to land ( just the shapes of most ships would preclude landing on a flat surface.)

and if you need a description on what this looks like there is a blurb in battle fleet kronous about what happens when a kroot sphere lands and takes off. if I remember right it is somewhat earthshattering.


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#8 Lynata

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Going by GW's Battlefleet Gothic game, Transports and Frigates are capable of landing on a planet. Anything larger, not so much. Their mass just becomes too much to resist the gravitic pull.

 

Or rather, only once, as the esteemed forumite above put it.  :lol:


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#9 Alasseo

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

It is basically a case of yes, for smaller ships, or those specially designed to do so, assuming a specially prepared landing cradle, cleared and flattened landing ground or a sufficiently large body of water (assumes a ship with a particularly large surface area/mass ratio... probably only the smallest would fit- or possibly some empty transports).

The old Barrington Bayley novel Eye of Terror does tell us that full on starships do actually land on a regular basis... but it's a very old book, and an equally old conception of the fluff, with landed ships described as being maybe 30m-90m tall. This is obviously far smaller than we'd expect from 40k now.

The largest ship I can think of offhand that successfully and intentionally landed and took off again from a planetary surface was either a Strike Cruiser of the Grief Bringers Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes [in the short story Twisted Stars], or a titan transporter [in one of the later books of the Titan graphic novel].

And if they're not being landed/recovered in transports, the titan legions can (in some cases) be deployed by a skycrane-style orbital drop pack/drop pod [attested in the short story Battle of the Archeosaurs, iirc]. I can't remember if it was deploying Emperor titans, or "just" battle titans like Warlords and Reavers.


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#10 Wincent

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:16 PM

Kroot Sphere (Battlefleet Koronus), which is quite huge  can land so I think its not a matter of how big it is but internal construction. Going by planet-bound and few salvagable ships from fluff I'd say it about thursters (and aerodynamics... and internal construction) pointing wrong way.



#11 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:25 AM

In those novels where we've seen it happen, Titans are deployed to the surface either in Mass Conveyors (huge cargo barges which - whilst smaller than a warp-capable starship - are still bloody huge, carrying half a dozen titans or more*), or in some cases deployed solo in single, huge drop pods**.

 

As noted, smaller starships can enter atmosphere but anything capital ship sized can't - but a transport of that size will carry a whole fleet of lighters, drop-ships and heavier interface craft.

 

 

* See the Graphic Novel Titan and the Audio-Book Honour The Dead.

** See Galaxy In Flames and the short story Battle Of The Archeosaurs.


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#12 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:10 AM

Universe

 

In those novels where we've seen it happen, Titans are deployed to the surface either in Mass Conveyors (huge cargo barges which - whilst smaller than a warp-capable starship - are still bloody huge, carrying half a dozen titans or more*), or in some cases deployed solo in single, huge drop pods**.

 

As noted, smaller starships can enter atmosphere but anything capital ship sized can't - but a transport of that size will carry a whole fleet of lighters, drop-ships and heavier interface craft.

 

 

* See the Graphic Novel Titan and the Audio-Book Honour The Dead.

** See Galaxy In Flames and the short story Battle Of The Archeosaurs.

 

An universe-class mass conveyor? That's larger than even a grand cruiser.


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#13 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:53 AM

Sorry. Mass Lander, not Mass Conveyor



#14 Radwraith

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:52 AM

In the Gaunt's ghosts series, Cruisers enter the atmosphere to disgorge transport craft like Valkyries. I would assume Dan meant something like a Dictator class cruiser. Also true of the Black templar's which landed what looked like a cruiser to pick up their new recruits. In the Video game "Space Marine" the Orcs are operating the Warboss' flagship in the lower atmosphere in the beginning of the game. Point is; Their are plenty of examples where it can happen. I have always ruled that it is not so much inability to fly in an atmosphere and/or land but rather, that it takes very extensive facilities (Massive Docks similar to those seen in Star wars III revenge of the Sith) to land one or a ship designed to do so (Much like an LST was designed to run aground.). Very few worlds have these facilities and even those that do also have large orbital docks. It is also very risky and takes a good deal of preparation for a Voidship to configure itself for atmospheric transition. One doesn't just point the nose down and go! ;)  Once in the atmosphere a voidship doesn't move terribly fast (I use a guideline of 50kph cruising speed per thrust point) and doesn't maneuver well at all! (Still operates in 30 minute turns.) Compared to a Voidship a marauder bomber looks pretty agile! Anyway, Just some thoughts on the way I handle it. The fluff will support you either way!



#15 Lynata

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

Indeed, the fluff changes depending on where you look. For example, GW's own website says that Valkyries have limited spaceflight capability specifically because the ships that carry them have to launch them from low orbit.

 

Cherrypick how you think it best suits your idea of the setting - or rather, try to get an idea of how your group thinks about such details so as to avoid turning people off by conflicting their ideas, if they have any.  :)


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#16 CaptainStabby

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

There are lots of references to Titan Landers or Titan "Dropships" in the fluff, strangely enough, noone ever talks about how they get them back on a ship... 



#17 MKX

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:16 PM

Here you go, here's my version of the Devourer. (because halo barges are stupidly small) I do have titan landers as well, but this is a rough idea of 'where' an assault lander should be in terms of 'how much' stuff it dumps out. Plus I can use it in Only War and Black Crusade for similar levels of planetary invasion-y type of things.

 

Devourer Drop Ship
Weight 4000T  
Length 140metres 
Width 55metres 
Height 25metres 
Ground Clearance 2metres
Type: Spacecraft   
Size: Titanic (+60 to be hit)
Armour:  55 (All)
Shield: 1 x titan class void shield (AV50, penetrating shots have a 5% chance to overload, enginseer: -10 tech use test to restore)  
Structural Integrity: 120 
Tactical Speed: 20m/2  
Cruise Speed:  700km/h/2VU's (Standard) 1400km/h/4VU's (Entry into 1 standard gravity well)  
Handling Modifier: -15  
Crew: Commander, Pilot, Co-Pilot, 4 x Gunners, 6 x Load masters, Comms Operator, Engineseer
Access Points:  Sides (x2 man sized) Forward-main entry ramp 
Traits
Super-Heavy:
Cause Fear (1) in enemy infantry and vehicles smaller than themselves.
They cannot be stopped by Adverse conditions (no handling modifiers up to a -10) but will instead be slowed by one half
When it receives a critical hit, the result is Halved down to a minimum of Glancing Blow   
Armaments:  
360deg Turret: Manticore Launcher
Port 180deg Turret: Twin Las Cannons
Star 180deg Turret: Twin Las Cannons

Devourers are a heavy dropship designed to punch through the atmosphere of a planet and disgorge 100's of infantry, vehicles and survive long enough to get the job done with some support armaments to pacify the immediate area. They are generally terrible at any kind of actual airborne combat and rely on support from fighters to see them through any kind of interdiction attempts and do prefer a relatively clear landing area free of very large objects or risk damaging the belly of the dropship or having the main door hung up on terrain. In a pinch they can 'self-clear' an area with a Manticore missile if they have to but only have 4 missiles to do it with which can be impractical to reload under combat conditions or outside of a starship hanger (need a crane)

They are split into three decks.
Control Deck where the crew operate and maintain the machine along with 3 gun-bays to operate the las cannons and launcher.
Troop Deck, a large open arrangement of rows of seats and drop harnesses to hold 300 Imperial Guard, their officers and personal arms & armour
Cargo Deck, featuring heavy, reinforced flooring and multiple anchor points there is room for up to 1500tonnes of cargo or, combinations of the following:
1 Disassembled Warhound titan + room for 2 heavy assembly vehicles
3 vehicles of Monumental Scale (Baneblade sized)
6 vehicles of Immense Scale (Battle Tank/Landraider)
10 vehicles of Massive Scale (Chimera/Truck)
20 vehicles of Enormous Scale (Sentinals, Jeeps)
Ad-hoc transport refit-
500 tonnes of cargo and an additional 300 Imperial Guard and their officers


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#18 Radwraith

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

Here you go, here's my version of the Devourer. (because halo barges are stupidly small) I do have titan landers as well, but this is a rough idea of 'where' an assault lander should be in terms of 'how much' stuff it dumps out. Plus I can use it in Only War and Black Crusade for similar levels of planetary invasion-y type of things.

 

Devourer Drop Ship
Weight 4000T  
Length 140metres 
Width 55metres 
Height 25metres 
Ground Clearance 2metres
Type: Spacecraft   
Size: Titanic (+60 to be hit)
Armour:  55 (All)
Shield: 1 x titan class void shield (AV50, penetrating shots have a 5% chance to overload, enginseer: -10 tech use test to restore)  
Structural Integrity: 120 
Tactical Speed: 20m/2  
Cruise Speed:  700km/h/2VU's (Standard) 1400km/h/4VU's (Entry into 1 standard gravity well)  
Handling Modifier: -15  
Crew: Commander, Pilot, Co-Pilot, 4 x Gunners, 6 x Load masters, Comms Operator, Engineseer
Access Points:  Sides (x2 man sized) Forward-main entry ramp 
Traits
Super-Heavy:
Cause Fear (1) in enemy infantry and vehicles smaller than themselves.
They cannot be stopped by Adverse conditions (no handling modifiers up to a -10) but will instead be slowed by one half
When it receives a critical hit, the result is Halved down to a minimum of Glancing Blow   
Armaments:  
360deg Turret: Manticore Launcher
Port 180deg Turret: Twin Las Cannons
Star 180deg Turret: Twin Las Cannons

Devourers are a heavy dropship designed to punch through the atmosphere of a planet and disgorge 100's of infantry, vehicles and survive long enough to get the job done with some support armaments to pacify the immediate area. They are generally terrible at any kind of actual airborne combat and rely on support from fighters to see them through any kind of interdiction attempts and do prefer a relatively clear landing area free of very large objects or risk damaging the belly of the dropship or having the main door hung up on terrain. In a pinch they can 'self-clear' an area with a Manticore missile if they have to but only have 4 missiles to do it with which can be impractical to reload under combat conditions or outside of a starship hanger (need a crane)

They are split into three decks.
Control Deck where the crew operate and maintain the machine along with 3 gun-bays to operate the las cannons and launcher.
Troop Deck, a large open arrangement of rows of seats and drop harnesses to hold 300 Imperial Guard, their officers and personal arms & armour
Cargo Deck, featuring heavy, reinforced flooring and multiple anchor points there is room for up to 1500tonnes of cargo or, combinations of the following:
1 Disassembled Warhound titan + room for 2 heavy assembly vehicles
3 vehicles of Monumental Scale (Baneblade sized)
6 vehicles of Immense Scale (Battle Tank/Landraider)
10 vehicles of Massive Scale (Chimera/Truck)
20 vehicles of Enormous Scale (Sentinals, Jeeps)
Ad-hoc transport refit-
500 tonnes of cargo and an additional 300 Imperial Guard and their officers

Hmmm...Interesting! Did you design this yourself or is it referenced somewhere?



#19 MKX

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:37 AM

They've been around for a while, but there's never been a tabletop model for it or description much beyond that it drops a company or so's worth of IG on the surface, armed with some las cannons and a launcher.

The rest is mine and during my time as a Rogue Trader some time ago, there really wasn't anything like it or even civilian type of heavy-lift vehicles for moving serious cargo.

 

A civilian equivalent type of vehicle I'd imagine would be much the same, just drop 20 off the armour, get rid of the guns, shields and a few crew, then upgrade the carrying capacity up to around 2-2200 tonnes. Sort of going off something like a dedicated lift aircraft like a C-5 or something similar, they can carry about 50-55% of their total weight.



#20 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:00 AM

The Devourer-class was mentioned in...I think it was one of the illustration panels in the Inferno comic?

 

The other bulk lander mentioned in the background for guard is the Tetrarch-class. This is a much boxier thing compared to the rounded hull of a Devourer (which is so called because boarding it through the nose ramp looks uncomfortably like being eaten), and has several gun turrets and huge side and prow-ramps. Specifically, it's the thing in the background of the front cover of Codex:Imperial Guard.


Edited by Magnus Grendel, 09 October 2013 - 08:00 AM.





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