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#1 Tangent

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 07:55 AM

I'm finally able to get into this game, but last time I checked (a long time ago), the expansions and stuff were different.  Now there are deluxe expansions, which seem to be all about specific factions, but not necessarily...?

 

So I'm just looking for a general breakdown of the game, here.  There's the core set, expansion sets, deluxe expansions, and asylum packs.  What are they, what's the difference between them, and how do I get all of the cards that I want?

 

I appreciate the help!



#2 Yipe

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:20 PM

Tangent,

 

First off, welcome to Call of Cthulhu.  Now to answer your questions:

 

A great place to check everything out is CardGameDB.  Like the name implies, it's a database of all the Cthulhu cards complete with scans and which packs or boxed sets they come in.

 

http://www.cardgamed...C/CoCCards.html

 

There are 3 types of products in the Cthulhu line.

 

1.  The Core Set

 

This is the base game.  It comes with x1 of every card included (total of 155 cards and 10 story cards), has success tokens, domain markers, and everything else you need to start playing.

 

2.  Deluxe Expansions (aka Boxed Expansions and Boxed Sets)

 

These sets usually include x3 of every card (averaging a total of 165 cards), though there is one exception.  Some are faction specific and some are more generalized.  The main difference between these and the Core set is that they are usually more focused around a particular faction or theme, and don't come with the main rulebook or other accessories you need to play.

 

Last year FFG announced they would stop production of the smaller, monthly releases for CoC known as Asylum Packs and only put out larger boxed sets 3-4 times per year.  This new release schedule started with Seekers of Knowledge, then was followed by The Key and the Gate, Terror in Venice and now the upcoming Denizens of the Underworld.

 

You'll see a pattern here.  FFG started with a specific "human" faction, then a specific "monster" faction, then a themed set for all the factions, then back to a specific "human" faction set again.  While it's only a guess, we expect them to continue this pattern.  Therefore, after Denizens of the Underworld comes out (which focuses on the human Syndicate faction), we should see a monster-specific deluxe set.

 

Here's a specific breakdown of the various deluxe expansions in order of release:

 

A)  Secrets of Arkham (SoA)

It's a generalized expansion, meaning you get cards from all the various factions except The Order of the Silver Twilight (as that faction hadn't been released yet).  You also get a new set of 10 story cards (this is the only deluxe expansion to date that includes a story card deck).

 

Note, Secrets of Arkham comes with x2 of every card included, as opposed to x3 like all the rest.  Therefore, to get 3 copies of every card you have to purchase 2 Secrets of Arkham sets.  You will have half a set of cards leftover, but you can easily sell these online.

 

B) Order of the Silver Twilight (OotST)

This is the first deluxe expansion to focus on a single faction, as well as contain x3 copies of every card.  It introduces the Silver Twilight to the game so the majority of the cards are for that faction (40 out of 55), though it includes 15 different cards for the other 7 factions (roughly 2 each).

 

C) Seekers of Knowledge (SoK)

This deluxe expansion focuses primarily on the Miskatonic University faction.  It contains x3 copies of every card.  It's considered a strong expansion and makes playing mono-M.U. a viable option.

 

D) The Key and the Gate (TKatG)

This deluxe expansion focuses on the Yog-Sothoth faction.  Again, it contains x3 copies of every card.  It's trickier to use than Seekers of Knolwedge, but does introduce a new mechanic where you trigger cards from your discard pile which can be quite powerful.

 

E) Terror in Venice (TiV)

Similar to Secrets of Arkham, this is a generalized expansion, containing a roughly even number of cards for each faction.  It has x3 copies of every card.  Terror in Venice has two primary themes - the day/night mechanic and conspiracy cards.

 

F) Denizens of the Underworld (DotU)

This hasn't been released yet.  It focuses on the Syndicate expansion and will have x3 copies of each card.

 

And that's what we have so far for deluxe expansions.

 

This post is getting long so I'll wrap up for the moment and be back to tackle Asylum Packs later on.

 

Does this answer some of your questions?  If not, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm happy to help.

 

On a final note, head over to the Call of Cthulhu forums at http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/.  They see more action than these forums and are a better place to chat (which is probably FFG acquired that website last month).

 

Sincerely,

 

Matt


Edited by Yipe, 29 September 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#3 Tangent

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:41 AM

Great breakdown - thanks!  So, at this point, if I want to expand my access to the game, I have to dip into the Asylum Packs because not every faction has received a Deluxe Expansion yet.

 

As for the Asylum Packs, are they best purchased in order of released?  Can you still get some of the older ones?  Are there any that are not worth getting at all, or any that are must-haves for whatever reason?  And do they also come with 3 copies of each card?



#4 dboeren

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:04 AM

Well, the "classic" advice was to get Secrets of Arkham first.  Now that Terror in Venice is out, that's another good upgrade path, or you could get both.  At some point you'd probably want a 2nd Core set to have more copies of those cards as well.

 

At some point, you make a choice - either to pick up Silver Twilight and then start buying newer Asylum Packs (which have Silver Twilight cards in them) or if you want to skip it for a while you'll probably pick up older packs (which do not have Silver Twilight cards in them).  Doesn't really matter, it's just doing things in different orders.

 

There aren't really any must-have packs or useless packs that I can think of, but I do encourage people to consider getting the Shifting Sands pack purely because it has the most recent set of Story cards in it - the ones that are currently being used in tournaments.  So, if you ever plan to play in organized events it's good to have a copy.

 

All the asylum packs come with 3x copies of all cards unless you somehow manage to find a very very old pack that's been sitting on the shelf somewhere.  You can tell because all the new packs have 60 cards and the really old packs have 40 cards.  It's pretty hard to find them anymore unless you're specifically looking for them.  All the packs have since been reprinted except for the Dreamlands cycle which is on the schedule.  Originally we thought they'd be showing up by now but it's been bumped back.  So, just pick something else to get first and get these once the reprints happen.  It's not like there aren't enough packs to keep you busy until then :)



#5 Tangent

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:53 AM

So, the Asylum Packs were released in sets, and each set had 6 Packs, correct?  How many sets are there, which sets are pre-Silver Twilight, and are any of the cards that were released in an Asylum Pack re-released for (and included in) any deluxe expansion?



#6 Yipe

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

And to continue my breakdown...

 

To review, there are 3 types of product in the Call of Cthulhu line - the Core set, Deluxe Expansions, and Asylum Packs.  I've discussed the first 2 up above.  As usual, dboeren has done an excellent job of giving you the rundown on APs.  I'll just fill in the blanks by answering some of your follow-up questions:

 

First off, this link gives you a list of all the Asylum Packs.  It may be handy:

 

http://www.fantasyfl...?eidm=11&esem=2

 

Each Asylum Pack cycle contains 6 packs.  Initially, APs came with 40 cards (x3 copies of 10 cards, and x1 copy of 10 cards) and retailed for $10.  This meant you had to purchase 3 packs in order to get a full set of every card.

 

Fortunately, FFG changed this format to 60 cards (x3 copies of all 20 cards) with the release of The Rituals of the Order cycle, and then went back and reprinted everything in the new format save the Dreamlands cycle (which is slated to get the 60-card treatment soon).  APs in the now-standard 60-card format retail for $15.

 

Dboeren pointed out there aren't many of the 40-card packs lying around anymore, but there are a few.   So how do you know if you're getting a 40-card pack or a 60-card one?  In person that's quite easy, just look on the back of the pack and check the description.  It will say either 40 or 60 cards.  Online it's a little trickier.  Check the price.  If it's been discounted down to around $7, it's the old style.  If it's been discounted to roughly $10, it's the new style.

 

To the best of my knowledge, here is the order the APs were released:

 

Forgotten Lore

The Summons of the Deep

Dreamlands

The Yuggoth Contract

The Rituals of the Order (contains Silver Twilight)

Ancient Relics (contains Silver Twilight)

Revelations (contains Silver Twilight)

 

Where to start?  That's up to you.  There are excellent cards scattered throughout all of these packs.  My advice is to ignore Forgotten Lore and Dreamlands for now.  Pick up the Shifting Sands (1st AP from the Ancient Relics cycle) for the new 12-card story deck because it's always fun to have more story cards.

 

From there it really depends.  If you're ignoring the Silver Twilight, then The Summons of the Deep and The Yuggoth Contract both have solid cards that I still use in my decks.  However, if you don't mind picking up some Silver Twilight cards, then I would focus on the 2 newest cycles (Ancient Relics and Revelations).

 

Is there a specific faction you're drawn to?  Then my recommendation is to go over to CardGameDB and browse the Cthulhu library for cards you like.  It's a great way to plan out your purchases.  Know that you don't have to buy all the packs from a single cycle - feel free to mix and match as you like.  Yes, there are some light themes running through each cycle, but not enough to demand you acquire them in any order or to completion.

 

To answer your last question:  There are only a few cards that have been "double released."  They are found in the Forgotten Lore cycle and Secrets of Arkham (off the top of my head I can only think of 1 - The Greatest Fear - but there may be 1 or 2 others).

 

I hope that helped.

 

Sincerely,

 

Matt


Edited by Yipe, 30 September 2013 - 06:53 PM.


#7 Tangent

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

Another excellent breakdown!  Why do you not recommend Forgotten Lore and the Dreamlands?



#8 dboeren

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:59 PM

I think the other cards that were double-released were Torch the Joint and The Bootleg Whiskey Cover-Up.  That's it as far as I can recall - and all of these were from the Forgotten Lore cycle.

 

Dreamlands would be because it's not yet re-released in 60 card format.

 

Forgotten Lore I consider a bit unpolished, it was the first set released in a fixed format.  Nothing really wrong with them and I'd still buy them eventually if you want a full set, but I would probably prioritize them for later.  I guess it also has a couple less cards due to the duplicates but 3 cards out of 120 isn't that big a deal.



#9 Yipe

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

I agree with dboeren's assessment of the the Forgotten Lore cycle.  I just didn't find the cards as useful or interesting as the other cycles.  Don't get me wrong, there are still some gems to found, but overall I rate it a low priority when you're first starting out.

 

I didn't recommend the Dreamlands cycle simply because it hasn't been re-released in the 60-card format, not because it doesn't contain excellent cards (it does).  But why bother with the 40-card packs when you have so many other APs you could purchase?  Just wait until it hits the shelves in the new format and pick it up then.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't go too crazy with your card purchases right off the bat.  My recommendation is for x2-3 Core sets, The Shifting Sands, Secrets of Arkham and Terror in Venice, or perhaps Seekers of Knowledge and The Key and the Gate for more faction-focused decks.  Settle into those cards for a bit and then expand from there.



#10 Tangent

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

Then that's definitely where I will start!

 

Out of curiosity, if Dreamlands was reprinted, how would it rank in your priority?



#11 dboeren

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:16 AM

Before Terror in Venice I would have put it pretty high because the Day/Night mechanic is really fun and there are some pretty good cards in this set.

 

Now that Terror in Venice is out you've got al alternate way to get Day/Night so I'd recommend Venice first and then Dreamlands later.  If you really like Day/Night put it early in the list, if not then it can slip down to a more middle position.



#12 Tangent

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:17 PM

Ah, ok.  Well I definitely intend to pick up Terror in Venice so I'll see how it goes!



#13 Danigral

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:36 PM

Tangent,

 

First off, welcome to Call of Cthulhu.  Now to answer your questions:

 

A great place to check everything out is CardGameDB.  Like the name implies, it's a database of all the Cthulhu cards complete with scans and which packs or boxed sets they come in.

 

http://www.cardgamed...C/CoCCards.html

 

There are 3 types of products in the Cthulhu line.

 

1.  The Core Set

 

This is the base game.  It comes with x1 of every card included (total of 155 cards and 10 story cards), has success tokens, domain markers, and everything else you need to start playing.

 

2.  Deluxe Expansions (aka Boxed Expansions and Boxed Sets)

 

These sets usually include x3 of every card (averaging a total of 165 cards), though there is one exception.  Some are faction specific and some are more generalized.  The main difference between these and the Core set is that they are usually more focused around a particular faction or theme, and don't come with the main rulebook or other accessories you need to play.

 

Last year FFG announced they would stop production of the smaller, monthly releases for CoC known as Asylum Packs and only put out larger boxed sets 3-4 times per year.  This new release schedule started with Seekers of Knowledge, then was followed by The Key and the Gate, Terror in Venice and now the upcoming Denizens of the Underworld.

 

You'll see a pattern here.  FFG started with a specific "human" faction, then a specific "monster" faction, then a themed set for all the factions, then back to a specific "human" faction set again.  While it's only a guess, we expect them to continue this pattern.  Therefore, after Denizens of the Underworld comes out (which focuses on the human Syndicate faction), we should see a monster-specific deluxe set.

 

Here's a specific breakdown of the various deluxe expansions in order of release:

 

A)  Secrets of Arkham (SoA)

It's a generalized expansion, meaning you get cards from all the various factions except The Order of the Silver Twilight (as that faction hadn't been released yet).  You also get a new set of 10 story cards (this is the only deluxe expansion to date that includes a story card deck).

 

Note, Secrets of Arkham comes with x2 of every card included, as opposed to x3 like all the rest.  Therefore, to get 3 copies of every card you have to purchase 2 Secrets of Arkham sets.  You will have half a set of cards leftover, but you can easily sell these online.

 

B) Order of the Silver Twilight (OotST)

This is the first deluxe expansion to focus on a single faction, as well as contain x3 copies of every card.  It introduces the Silver Twilight to the game so the majority of the cards are for that faction (40 out of 55), though it includes 15 different cards for the other 7 factions (roughly 2 each).

 

C) Seekers of Knowledge (SoK)

This deluxe expansion focuses primarily on the Miskatonic University faction.  It contains x3 copies of every card.  It's considered a strong expansion and makes playing mono-M.U. a viable option.

 

D) The Key and the Gate (TKatG)

This deluxe expansion focuses on the Yog-Sothoth faction.  Again, it contains x3 copies of every card.  It's trickier to use than Seekers of Knolwedge, but does introduce a new mechanic where you trigger cards from your discard pile which can be quite powerful.

 

E) Terror in Venice (TiV)

Similar to Secrets of Arkham, this is a generalized expansion, containing a roughly even number of cards for each faction.  It has x3 copies of every card.  Terror in Venice has two primary themes - the day/night mechanic and conspiracy cards.

 

F) Denizens of the Underworld (DotU)

This hasn't been released yet.  It focuses on the Syndicate expansion and will have x3 copies of each card.

 

And that's what we have so far for deluxe expansions.

 

This post is getting long so I'll wrap up for the moment and be back to tackle Asylum Packs later on.

 

Does this answer some of your questions?  If not, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm happy to help.

 

On a final note, head over to the Call of Cthulhu forums at http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/.  They see more action than these forums and are a better place to chat (which is probably FFG acquired that website last month).

 

Sincerely,

 

Matt

 

Please sticky, Admins!


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#14 Yipe

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

I don't know if this deserves a sticky, but I appreciate the gesture Danigral.  I pretty much knocked this out as fast as I could type.  If I had more time to reply I would've done a more thorough job.



#15 Tangent

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:05 AM

I definitely think it's plenty good enough for a new player!  Aside from listing and describing each card in each set, I'm not sure what else you can do!



#16 Blutsteigen

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:30 AM

Yuggoth Contract packs -- what's your take on them.

 

Benefits I see:

 

original factions for those focusing on them

also, breaks into more detailed faction abilities.

 

Cons:

 

I don't know how "good" the cards are. for we new to the game I should say, "usable." Her and I will only be playing each other initially. Friendly comp, no tournies.



#17 Danigral

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:40 PM

Yuggoth Contract packs -- what's your take on them.

 

Benefits I see:

 

original factions for those focusing on them

also, breaks into more detailed faction abilities.

 

Cons:

 

I don't know how "good" the cards are. for we new to the game I should say, "usable." Her and I will only be playing each other initially. Friendly comp, no tournies.

For Cthulhu, I would say it's not critical since it focuses on a new subtype, serpents. There won't be much support for stuff in the Core or Secrets of Arkham. For Hastur, it introduces a new subtype, lunatics. These are cool and add a little theme and in some cases utility to Hastur which lacks in decent characters in the core. These cycles also introduce new versions of the AOs which are in most cases better than the core set versions, so they will obsolete them. It adds some interesting conspiracy related stuff, which goes will with Terror in Venice. Overall, there are some decent cards, and some fun cards. If you're sticking to just 7 factions, I'd rank it higher up.


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#18 Toqtamish

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 08:44 AM

Didn't see this mentioned in the thread but note that SoA is being updated and reprinted with 3x of every card instead of 2x.






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