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#1 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

Can 2 voidships spot each other in the warp and fight each other there? 
Boarding would work the same? Or even ballistics?

Would it call unwanted attention eventually?

 


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#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:45 PM

While rare and unlikely, two ships can definitely spot or detect eachother while inside the warp.

The problem being, of course, that neither ship would be able to run their voidshields. Most things in the warp would not work properly. You wouldn't be able to, for example, launch interceptors or perform boarding actions.

I do not think there are any rules for it, though. But it has been plainly stated that you cannot have both voidshields and gellar field up at the same time. Any ships that would leave the gellar field would be instantly screwed, not to mention that anyone as much as looks out the window would turn insane (save the Navigator, of course).

Personally, I would also give considerable penalties to actually firing, since you can't really take aim, and a ship would have to rely on sensors - sensors that would no doubt be affected by the warp. Not to mention the fact that the shots would pass from gellar field-to-gellar field, travelling vast distances of pure chaos, throwing off aim.

I'd try to avoid chaos forces or orks within the warp, because they probably wouldn't suffer nearly as many problems.

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#3 Magellan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:32 AM

Where has it been stated that you can't run your void shields and gellar field at the same time?


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#4 Fgdsfg

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:27 PM

Where has it been stated that you can't run your void shields and gellar field at the same time?

I have no idea. Can't you just trust me?


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#5 Sebastian Yorke

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:20 PM

If I remember it well... Somewhere in the Koronus Battlefleet or Hostile Acquisitions there is an option for gellar field/void shield where they are integrated to the same generators and cannot work at the same time.

But I think that besides that case, vs and gf can work at the same time.


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#6 Fgdsfg

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

If I remember it well... Somewhere in the Koronus Battlefleet or Hostile Acquisitions there is an option for gellar field/void shield where they are integrated to the same generators and cannot work at the same time.

But I think that besides that case, vs and gf can work at the same time.

Void-Shields operate on warp-based technology, though. Exactly how it displaces or protect ships (or titans and tanks) isn't entirely known, though, but it's definitely mucking about the warp. The same Warp that the Gellar Field pushes out.


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#7 SirFrog

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

I always thought that Power Fields didn't utilize the warp, but rather interfered with its workings, as some "soul-based" weapons (read: Stryxis melee weaponry) simply short out when hitting a power field. Also, stasis fields are known to keep everything inside well in its place, being known even to keep Chaos corruption at bay.

 

In other words, I'd guess that Gellar fields are a sort of cross of stasis fields and more specialized power fields designed to give maximum warp protection. Then again, nobody really knows what makes a Gellar field tick anymore, so it's not like any Mechanicus book will give us answers.

 

Edit: To clarify, I would say that Gellar fields and void shields are too alike and use too similar systems to be functional simultaneously.

 

Then again, in any game I'd run warp combat would be pretty much impossible anyway. You can't ever reliably track anything using sensor equipment (not even the fellow ships you jumped with are very visible), and ballistics don't work where space and time does not follow conventional rules. Besides, I'm not sure I'd be happy to have a macrobattery salvo or lance strike shoot though the Gellar fields. They're not foolproof to begin with, and we don't need to take any chances.


Edited by SirFrog, 30 September 2013 - 03:02 PM.

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#8 Nameless2all

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

I remember the "warp combat" question being a topic once before. To summarize, it was classified as near impossible unless both ships were next to or connected to each other, in the same warp bubble. In essence, any projectiles fired outside of the warp bubble would either a) go off course b) disappear c) turn into flying panda bears or something.

 

 

 

As for boarding, unless the shuttles have their own Gellar Fields (which 99% of shuttles do not), then everyone on board would instantly die (or become extremely corrupted and turn into jelly fish or something) once they exit the Warp Bubble of your ship and go into the 'pertty colors' of the warp.

 

 

 

SirFrog had a valid and ingenious point too. It could be possibly that ship firing weapons could also tear their own warp protection apart. It might only be a micro second of time when the projectile penetrates the warp bubble, but hey, it's still a micro second of time that something penetrated your warp shield to let daemons in.  So, how many times did your macro cannon fire again while in the warp?

 

Hope this helps some.  Happy gaming people.


Edited by Nameless2all, 30 September 2013 - 05:40 PM.

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#9 Magellan

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:48 AM

 

Where has it been stated that you can't run your void shields and gellar field at the same time?

I have no idea. Can't you just trust me?

 

Of course not. Why would I?


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#10 Fgdsfg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:20 AM

Where has it been stated that you can't run your void shields and gellar field at the same time?

I have no idea. Can't you just trust me?

Of course not. Why would I?

Because I'm a trustworthy kinda guy? Honest.
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#11 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:04 AM

Whilst not explicitely stated as Fgdsfg phrases it, he is right - no shields during warp transit.

 

The description of how void shields work (see Path of the Warrior, Deliverance Lost, and a couple of other Black Library novels) is that a void shield works by shunting incoming destructive energy into the warp (less some destructive feedback which is what ultimately causes the shield to fail if you keep shooting it).

 

If you are actually in the warp...this process doesn't therefore work and won't protect you.

 

Boarding actions...possible, but only if two ships are close enough for lighters/boarding craft/assault claws to reach from one ship to another without leaving overlapping geller field bubbles. And without shields, any broadside-to-broadside duel would be reeealllly bloody.



#12 Fgdsfg

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:44 AM

Whilst not explicitely stated as Fgdsfg phrases it, he is right - no shields during warp transit.

 

The description of how void shields work (see Path of the Warrior, Deliverance Lost, and a couple of other Black Library novels) is that a void shield works by shunting incoming destructive energy into the warp (less some destructive feedback which is what ultimately causes the shield to fail if you keep shooting it).

 

If you are actually in the warp...this process doesn't therefore work and won't protect you.

 

Boarding actions...possible, but only if two ships are close enough for lighters/boarding craft/assault claws to reach from one ship to another without leaving overlapping geller field bubbles. And without shields, any broadside-to-broadside duel would be reeealllly bloody.

I like to believe that aside from orks and maaaaaybe some of the crazier chaos warbands, while within the warp, if two ships were to somehow spot eachother, they'll both realize that this fight just isn't worth it, or that the risks are too high.

With a proper layer of paranoia, of course, because a well-aimed initial first strike could easily blow out the enemy ship's gellar field, I'd say, and then it's game over. Of course, the spoils of war would likely also be lost, so to many not even that would be worth it.


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#13 susanbrindle

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:53 AM

It's worth noting that while there *are* bad things within the warp, the danger comes not from the omnipresence of murderous forces, but by the unpredictability of said forces. There are plenty of instances where people visit the warp briefly and without significant reprecussions (In fact, isn't one of the Psychic Phenomena rolls a brief trip to the warp, with only a handful of insanity to show for it?). Warp spiders, for example, make brief jaunts into the warp.

 

Now, admittedly, going into the Warp without a Gellar field *is* suicide, but that's because something nasty will find you sooner or later, rather than because every square meter has something nasty.



#14 Magellan

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 05:47 PM

Also, the fact that you're running both a plasma engine and a warp engine at full power are gonna draw all kinds of nasties to you like moths to a flame.


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#15 htsmithium

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:46 AM

didn't they fly a thunderhawk in the warp without a geller field in one of the ultramarine books?  For a good visual of the difficulties of fighting in the warp ( if even allowed) there is this series called " Banner of the stars" don't remember what episode it is thou. but basically the only way to attack another ship without being in there warp bubble was with special torpedoes. And if a ship lost it's field it while in warp it was crushed.

 

Oh and there is one perfect rough trader bit where the captain is taking a bath in the middle of a fleet engagement and complaining the vibrations from the main cannon is making the water splash.


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#16 Nameless2all

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:54 AM

For the warp spider and warp phenomenon of going into the warp, that is one person (Incase of the warp spider, I'm sure the eldar is shielded someway). For the ship entering the warp unguarded, you have thousands of people, along with Psykers and Navigators. IMO, it's way more significant that just a brief gist thrue the warp. It's like sending an army with trumpets and horns blaring to sneak by a slumbering giant, or sending one guy.
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