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Problems with Critical Damage


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#1 Retrokinesis

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:39 PM

So my current party is composed of a Idolitrex Magos with a Soul Cannon, a Khorne Berserker with a Power Claymore, and a Dark Apostle with an Accursed Crozius. All are legacy weapons and routinely do absurd amounts of damage. We've been playing the starting adventure (about the Temple of Lies) and they've dropped every single Inevitable Guard with a single hit.

 

Now, it's not the party killing everything in one hit I have a problem with. It's them triggering 10 Critical Damage on every hit. This is starting to get so ridiculous that it's interfering with the narrative; are laspacks so poorly made that they turn into makeshift grenades every single time the owner gets killed with a power weapon? Even worse is that they never do anything; even at max damage, the party would soak all the damage 100% of the time and the enemies about 75%.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any advice about this. Maybe some house rules re: Critical Damage to stop it from happening every single time and straining narrative credulity? Thanks!



#2 BrotharTearer

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:07 PM

How about, as a GM, not have it happen every time someone dies? That's a quick fix, if it's a problem. It's your game. If you don't like something, don't use it.


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#3 Amroth

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:16 AM

I'm with BrotherTearer on this, don't worry about critical damage for minor characters just for the main guys. Also mix up the affects or change or ignore them if they become repetitive or ridiculous.



#4 Athanatosz

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:41 AM

So my current party is composed of a Idolitrex Magos with a Soul Cannon, a Khorne Berserker with a Power Claymore, and a Dark Apostle with an Accursed Crozius. All are legacy weapons and routinely do absurd amounts of damage. We've been playing the starting adventure (about the Temple of Lies) and they've dropped every single Inevitable Guard with a single hit.

 

Now, it's not the party killing everything in one hit I have a problem with. It's them triggering 10 Critical Damage on every hit. This is starting to get so ridiculous that it's interfering with the narrative; are laspacks so poorly made that they turn into makeshift grenades every single time the owner gets killed with a power weapon? Even worse is that they never do anything; even at max damage, the party would soak all the damage 100% of the time and the enemies about 75%.

 

I was wondering if anyone had any advice about this. Maybe some house rules re: Critical Damage to stop it from happening every single time and straining narrative credulity? Thanks!

The main problem is that you gave more to your PC's than you can handle....

Temple of Lies is suggested for parties with 2000 XP (page 381) and under... And the advanced characters starts with 3100-4100 xp or so...( plus giving them such weapons is an insurance to npc massacres) 

The guards has a rank of troop it is means that they can be a treat only in horde... 

I could be very dickish with power playing I know but for an advice for these such players you need adversaries from the elite line or big hordes of troopers... maybe some master level... these treats are in the core-rulebook us them..

For example my starting (500-1000 Xp) party and the npc-s with them got 100 guardsman/ alpha acolyte and countless murder servitor to back up 1 inquisitional interrogator  (guardsman with hotshot volley fire and 40+ combat servitors can threatening in they level too) 


Edited by Athanatosz, 28 September 2013 - 01:50 AM.

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#5 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:42 AM

Agreed. Don't hang on the rules like this is a wargame; if someone's quite clearly and messily dead, they're dead, but the exact manner of their death should vary, and you should feel free to vary it. As noted, exploding power packs don't do much, so why feel you have to resolve them all the time?

 

The main thing, as noted, is that - advanced adversary or not - marines quickly reach the point that 'troops' adversaries are not a meaningful threat to them. If they're shredding dudes left, right and centre, then start sending in hordes.



#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

Your sending 12th-level characters into the Village of Hommlet, if you get my reference.


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#7 Keffisch

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:01 AM

The main problem is that you gave more to your PC's than you can handle....

Yup,

 

Three Legacy Weapons are also a bit over the top for a beginner adventure (and in general if you ask me).

 

I find that "Gear overload" is a problem with FFG's 40K systems. As in, once PCs reach a certain gear threshold, the combat scenarios become silly and one-sided. This is where NPC tactics and foresight can help level the playing field. :)



#8 Athanatosz

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:23 AM

Gear can be broken, stolen, borrowed by bigger guys ( basically robbed), lost, traded for your life (again robbed), taken out of characters cold dead hand (murder-robbed), sacrificed to gain benefits from greater  daemons, used as travelling tickets, used to pay for virginity insurance (bought from a  warband of Slaanesh Terminators) ...hmm... did i mention robbed?  

 

Just a few example. Gear power-play can be countered easily and witty if you are able to convince your players. But in the case show them that if this used against player characters it can be used against npc's too...(being fair play)


 "I am determined to prove a villain

    And hate the idle pleasures of these days."

 

KING RICHARD III


#9 BrotharTearer

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:15 PM

On the flip-side no one likes having their hard-earned gear taken from them arbitrarily. In this case maybe they shouldn't have been given them so easily, instead. But, it doesn't matter much. The weapons aren't the problem. The challenges aren't up to snuff.



#10 VIsix6

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:28 AM

you could up the enemy encounters like instead of guards have them fight more master level enemies like the screamers of tzeech


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#11 BrotharTearer

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:40 PM

you could up the enemy encounters like instead of guards have them fight more master level enemies like the screamers of tzeech

 

That's not a Master, nor is it good advise. How about you read the book instead of spouting inaccurate information?


Edited by BrotharTearer, 15 January 2014 - 04:40 PM.


#12 Calgor Grim

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

Critical damage should really be reserved for players and significant NPCs. Lesser enemies should just be considered dead when their wounds hit zero or less. Either splattered on a wall, incapacitated, a collection of dust...etc. Many a time I've seen my hostile characters just obliterated and when the party look at me to ask what the result was, I simply respond with a "Yeah...he's not there any more" and remove the figure from the grid. Overusing it tends to lessen the severity of the result when they actually have it inflicted on them.

 

If your party are scoring way to many criticals or nasty high damage to be comfortable with or finding some of the creatures too easy, throwing nasty huge beasts is not the best idea. They might wipe your entire group out which can annoy them a touch. What about throwing them out of their comfort zone or making the existing things harder? A few EMP effects to distort their weaponry, some Tzeentchian magicks to perhaps mess with their perceptions of reality, not knowing who is where or what so unless they stop and think, that damage might end up redirected at one of their fellow party or even at nothing. Wonderful thing about Chaos, you can probably come up with a random ritual/aura/psychic power which could be applicable and help your situation but without being a GM "I win" button.


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#13 Drachdhar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:47 PM

Check Only War or Tome of Fate for some nifty Haywire psychic powers. Ie Neural Storm and whatsits name in TK line in Only War... Also Tendrils of Corrosion nurgle power, works wonders on high tech stuff.

 

Have the exact same issue... Only I am the player that gets all the awesome toys, and I get bored because ***** to easy. Which is why I tend to roleplay more and let the others do the glory hogging combat shenanigans. 

 

Legacy weapons are more OP than Daemon Weapons really... mostly cause they are easier to get and wont go and possess you when you look the other way. Gonna discuss with my GM to disallow them at start, except under very good reasons when we reset. Think you should at least have done a few major infamous acts before you get to elevate something to a Legacy Weapon. Just my opinion though.



#14 Drachdhar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:50 PM

Also, Temple of Lies is pretty easy even for a new group of Core Rule Archetypes. 

 

And no matter what they say, the Tome's Archetypes are not really like the Core Archtypes with such and such more xp... Give that amount of extra xp to a Core Archetype char and they will outclass the Tome archetypes easily in every area they choose.

The Tome's Archetypes gets a few worthy bonuses, better stats and sometimes more interesting special abilities... even if Renegade happens to have one of the best in the game.



#15 VIsix6

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 11:13 PM

 

you could up the enemy encounters like instead of guards have them fight more master level enemies like the screamers of tzeech

 

That's not a Master, nor is it good advise. How about you read the book instead of spouting inaccurate information?

 

i dont currently have my book and i couldnt remember the class and please explain why that would not be a good idea i still dont understand that. never mind i should read the post farther below in the thread before i post


Edited by VIsix6, 16 January 2014 - 11:20 PM.

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