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How has Daybreak impacted your BSG games?


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#1 Anacreon

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

I'm curious how people are experiencing the impact of the Daybreak expansion in their game play compared to previous versions of the game


Edited by Anacreon, 25 September 2013 - 11:29 AM.


#2 Anacreon

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

My game group has played 6 Daybreak games so far, which seems just enough to begin getting some idea of the changes. 

 

My first sense so far is that Daybreak has perhaps made games somewhat less "stable."  By this, I mean, the outcomes have been more lopsided one way or the other.  Our finely tuned house rules with base+Pegasus+some Exodus were fairly reliable in churning out nail biters where the win game down to the line.  Even games where one side was winning hugely during the first half had some evident "regression to the mean" where the second half evened the score.  Now, with Daybreak, it feels like either the humans have had a bit of a cakewalk or, in contrast, the situation has spiralled out of control and crushed the humans.  We've had games stall out at 3 distance, for example, which almost never happened earlier.

 

Part of this is probably the 10 distance.  Games will end before you get there.  Part of it probably getting used to the new rule sets and not taking advantage of all the new options have to offer.  I'm sure there's other stuff.

 

One part is the new set up of how many cylons are in a game given the renewed emphasis on Cylon leaders and the addition of the Mutineer.  I feel like so far the Mutineer has not really impacted the game very much.  The Mutiny cards have had some impact, but the Mutineer itself has had less impact.  Even though we've really wanted it to be a factor, I haven't felt like it was a great replacement for the Sympathizer mechanic (which we had ourselves house ruled to be more effective).  The games become quite imbalanced when you have a Mutineer whose not really hurting anything or a Cylon leader who does not have a particularly mixed set of motives.  For example, in one game of five people, we had a CL with four human motives, none of which were that damaging, and was basically all "Join the Colonials," and a Mutineer who was human, and then one Cylon.  The Cylon stood no chance.  However, had the CL and Mutineer been left out of the Loyalty deck, it would have made room for a whole second full Cylon, making for an entirely different game less influenced by luck of the draw.  Lesson: Don't do CL+Mutineer+1 cylon in a 5 person game.  Just play it straight.  I think we were too excited to cram in all the new stuff.

 

The new treachery cards are a huge impact.  It seems to echo the sense in the later BSG episodes of constant threat and everything disintegrating.  There is a tipping point where the humans simply don't have the time to manage everything coming at them.  In some ways, it feels like the treachery cards have stolen the show.  The consequences of the treachery cards in a skill check might be far worse than the bad outcome of a failed skill check itself.  This really diminishes the significance of the crisis cards relative to the treachery cards and reduces the sense of strategy around crisis cards themselves compared to when to play treachery cards and other special cards like Restore Order or Dogfight onto or into the check - at times it reduces the sense that there is any strategy at all, since bad things just keep happening no matter what.  Sometimes, skill checks can become just a perpetual treachery machine with more added to the destiny deck, and this can really spin out of control.  Whereas the previous treachery cards had some minor effects that didn't scare people much, the new treachery cards are really pretty bad for the humans once they stack up over turns.  So, I feel like treachery went from underpowered to overpowered (I've raised the thought of mixing the old and new decks, but I haven't mentally worked out all the consequences on game play). 

 

That being said, I feel like one of the unfortunate upshots of the new treachery cards in addition to the mutiny cards is that it makes diminishing sense for the cylons to stay hidden.  Why try to hide if you have such an incredible chance to get sent to sickbay or the brig (with 2 mutiny cards) and reduce your capacity to hurt the humans?  The treachery cards are not just anti-human, they can hit the current player or give the current player the chance to hit someone else with a mutiny card.  Also, the humans have an incredible incentive not to discard their treachery cards.  With their value now being 3, 4, and 5, they can just save them up and use them to airlock the cylon in their midst.  This was much harder when treachery was only up to 3 value.  A Restore Order card on top of the airlock skill check with 3-4 treachery cards = dead cylon.  So, the new treachery cards can, not infrequently, end up hurting the cylons, thus making them want to avoid that by coming out on turn 1 - why not?  When you have 10 distance to go, it might make some sense to get your cylon freak on faster (more SCs) and enjoy the ride longer rather than mess around.  And I don't know about you, but our games have been most enjoyable when there is more, not less, paranoia and uncertainty about the identity of the cylons. 

 

One thing about *all* the new skill cards is that they can really slow the game down by adding so many interrupts to the skill checks.  So many times, someone has rushed through the count without looking at the text and someone else says, "WAIT, read the frakkin cards already!"  We have to stop and check that out.  And so, the distance to 10 seems more like 12. 

 

The mission cards: Yeah, they seem pretty ok and useful for humans to pass.  I like the addition.  However, it is amusing that there was so much excitement about the new Rebel Basestar when the chance of it actually getting deployed is actually kind of low.  You really have to work for that to happen. 

 

In the end, our group has been thrilled to have new characters, skill cards, and locations... and yet, I'm not entirely sure if we're enjoying the game as much as we did before. 



#3 JasX

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

Well I'll keep it short and sweet for my contribution.

Mutineer: Only been used when essential (ie a 6 player game), I've tended to rig the deck to force him out early otherwise his impact seems minimal and it's basically 4 humans vs 2 cylons and unbalanced.

Daybreak, yup it's long, makes for unstable games and encourages the cylons to come out early.... BUT you don;t have to go to earth every time and I can see it slotting in alongside the Ionanian nebula and even NC as one of those 'occasionally nice to play' destinations but Kobol will probably be the most frequent one to head for.

#4 Skowza

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:05 PM

Makes us want to use Cylon Leaders again. Makes me reconsider Kat since you have all those extra Treachery cards floating around now... but Starbuck in an Assault Raptor + Lee is just so strong...

#5 Anacreon

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:57 AM

Our group has begun modifying Daybreak.  The first experiment was that we decided to use ALL the treachery cards from Pegasus and Daybreak to dilute the effects of the Daybreak treachery.  We made it so playing reckless cards before skill checks still trigger the Daybreak reckless mechanic and not the Pegasus reckless skill check mechanic; the reckless skill check cards from Pegasus are just point values.  We may change this in future, but this was just a first stab.  For the record, it muted the reckless cards immensely in the game.

 

Several people still felt that going 10 was too much.  Demetrius just doesn't get used enough. 

 

Some of the Cylon motive cards are just dumb.  "Reveal if distance five and there are no centurions on board."  "Reveal if you've gone distance seven."  We may have to buff those.

 

 

 



#6 Nirnel

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:54 AM

I'm also curious about it. I plan to purchase Daybreak as soon as the spanish edition comes out, and I'd like to know which parts work best together. With Pegasus and Exodus, I pretty much combine everything from Exodus with the parts of Pegasus and the base game that aren't specifically excluded by the rules of Exodus options (such as cylon attack cards and the New Caprica phase).

 

If in need of a Sympathyzer or a Cylon Collaborator, I choose one randomly without knowing which one until it comes to play, and plan to do the same with the Mutineer. The new objective also seems to be easy to combine with the Ionian Nebula (just delay the trial/boxing until distance 10 and play with elements of both options). The idea of combining Treachery Cards sounds fine. I think I'll try it from the beginning.

 

Have you tried using a combination of elements like this? If so, how does it work?



#7 JasX

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:29 AM

Have you tried using a combination of elements like this? If so, how does it work?

 

 

If in need of a Sympathyzer or a Cylon Collaborator, I choose one randomly without knowing which one until it comes to play, and plan to do the same with the Mutineer.

 

 

I've tried a few combos.

 

I always use core pegasus, exodus and daybreak bits now.

 

CFB I occasionally change out for attack cards (ie remove all the CAG chooses crisis, the MK VIIs and the CFB and return the +2 basic vipers, CACs and scar destination card)

 

I only use personal goals on a 5 player game generally.

 

Regards the last point the sympathiser and collaborator are still rubbish as always but the mutineer actually works well (I rig the deck so he comes out in the first/start of game deal tho) so I strongly suggest ditching the rubbish two entirley.



#8 Nirnel

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:57 AM

Regards the last point the sympathiser and collaborator are still rubbish as always but the mutineer actually works well (I rig the deck so he comes out in the first/start of game deal tho) so I strongly suggest ditching the rubbish two entirley.

 

 

Is the mutineer good only when he appears from the beginning?



#9 JasX

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

Basically when he's appeared post-sleeper I've found him to be a negligable human handicap (particularly for non-earth destinations). Hence it's virtually 2 cylons vs 4 'fully capable' humans so unbalanced in the humans favour




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