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Proposed House Rule (Thoughts?)


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#1 PencilBoy99

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:21 AM

Thoughts on proposed house rule/setting clarification:

 

(1) Inquisitors are uncommon. Even in Scintilla, there aren't going to be hundreds of Inquisitors. The most common lead figure one would encounter would be an Interrogator or Interrogator Legate

 

(2) Inqusitorial power is, in reality, far far from absolute. The lack of a physically present Emperor making day to day decisions, combined vast size and slow/unreliable communications, means that actual power is a function of influence. A member of the Inquisition can certainly go to a planet and declare Exterminatus, but without the tacit/explicit support of other organizations it's unlikely to happen. Having a body of evidence, favors to exchange, reputation, or peers within the Ministorum, Astartes, Navy, or Administratum would be required before this could actually happen. Organizations within the Imperium are constantly "negotiating" power by exchanging assistance and temporary alliance

 

Mechanically, I'd represent this using Peers, along with Rank and something else (not sure what).



#2 ThenDoctor

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:26 PM

1) The Calaxis is odd in the fact that there is a larger than average number of inquisitors on Scintilla in the Tricorn Palace, it's where most Inquisitorial politics and action takes place. This is not representative of the rest of the galaxy at large where Inquisitors don't congregate often.

 

2) Read Ascencion to see the limits of what the Inquisition/Inquisitor can do in terms of that.


Edited by ThenDoctor, 23 September 2013 - 01:31 PM.

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I've made an expanded Divinations table for Dark Heresy Second Edition.

 

Find it here: http://community.fan...general-thread/


#3 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:22 AM

2) Read Ascencion to see the limits of what the Inquisition/Inquisitor can do in terms of that.

 

Agreed. Whilst there are arguments about how it translates into tangible money at lower scales, Ascension - and Dark Heresy 2nd Edition - have an additional stat called Influence (Inf). Be it far-reaching contacts, wasta, ridiculous raw wealth, owed favours, or whatever, it's exactly the mechanic you're after - along with guidance for using it openly (We're the inquisition, you're doing what We say, deal with it) or subtly (please don't tell anyone, but we need your help and can't tell you why), and for requisitioning weapons/troops/etc on a much larger scale.

 

As you note, things like Peer talents come into it as well as Fel checks. We have an ascension level character with Pious Observation (a unique Ascension talent) and Good Reputation (Ecclesiarchy), who essentially has the Calixian Synod's private astropaths on speed-dial.


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#4 PencilBoy99

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:05 AM

Thanks. Since you mentioned it, I've heard Ascension is clever but unplayable. What hacks have you used to run it.



#5 ThenDoctor

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:02 PM

You don't have to use any of the career mechanics (which are the "broken" ones) all the influence stuff and fluff describing just what the Inquisition can and can't do work very well.


I've made an expanded Divinations table for Dark Heresy Second Edition.

 

Find it here: http://community.fan...general-thread/


#6 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:09 PM

 What hacks have you used to run it.

 

None. Just created characters and go. We  use the Heed the Higher Call quick-start characters, just for reference. It's a damn sight faster.

 

A lot of people complain that the different characters aren't balanced, which both is and isn't true; the main culprit is the Primaris Psyker, who thanks to the introduction of 'fettered' psychic powers can fling around major powers like nobodies business.

 

That said, if you try and use the ascension characters in a 'dungeon crawl' it wont be balanced at all. It's in a sweeping, political campaign where they all come together. Yes, the vindicere is horrific in a fight, but he has next to no ability to influence the world beyond the effective range of an Exitus round (which admittedly is quite a long way). By comparison, a sage who automatically passes every forbidden lore (warp) check, no matter how diffcult, without even having to roll, is in his own way far more dangerous.

 

The main culprit for underpowered classes is probably the death cultist - as a blade-wielding melee fighter who doesn't get the force-fielded shield and pretty good armour of a crusader, but doesn't get the Temple Assassin trait or the awesome stealthsuit of the Vindicere. A pair of powered blades and all the melee skills in the world don't hurt but getting into range to poke someone with them is harder than it might be. You really need to think to get the most out of the starting sweep of skills - including some of the more obscure skills; hard to use in a straight fight, great for an "infiltration montage" scene.

 

For example, a Death Cultist and Vindicere both get the same flat out stealth skills (silent move, concealment, tracking) but the Death Cultist gets a higher Acrobatics score than the Vindicere, along with Contortionist +20, Chem-Use +20 and Sleight of Hand, which the 'quick-start' Vindicere doesn't get at all. How one uses these skills is up to the player, but Chem-Use can be used for a lot more than just jacking yourself up on 'slaught...

 

 

The one thing I'd say is that the Primaris and Vindicere both seem a bit out of scope anyway; neither feels right trailing around after an Inquisitor's personal retinue.



#7 Morangias

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:30 AM

Death Cultist is actually much scarier than the Crusader - with Preternatural Speed and Cult of Blood, she can make mincemeat out of anything that isn't a Temple Assassin or a Primaris Psyker ready for such a fight. Once the Unnatural Agility kicks in, she never loses initiative again and is actually much stealthier than the Vindicare. A relatively easy to get Rosarius will pluck all remaining defensive holes without sacrificing stealth (unlike refractor field, rosarius is invisible until it starts negating attacks). I'd actually place her right after Vindicare in the hierarchy of Ascension brokenness.

 

The real butts of this competition are the Storm Trooper and the Desperado, who really get nothing compared to other classes. ST's special abilities are wasted on slightly upgrading his standard issue equipment, which at this point is pretty useless by design. Desperado could have been alright if Fellowship and related skills had any meaning in Ascension, but sadly Influence does all Fellowship used to do, and more, which leaves Desperado as the guy who brings two autopistols and sarcastic wit to the battlefield dominated by physical gods and advanced murderbots on one side, and guys whose word is Emperor's law on the other.

 

Rest of the careers is what's capable of forming a coherent team together without anyone feeling like an extra.


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#8 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:41 PM

The real butts of this competition are the Storm Trooper and the Desperado, who really get nothing compared to other classes. ST's special abilities are wasted on slightly upgrading his standard issue equipment, which at this point is pretty useless by design. Desperado could have been alright if Fellowship and related skills had any meaning in Ascension, but sadly Influence does all Fellowship used to do, and more, which leaves Desperado as the guy who brings two autopistols and sarcastic wit to the battlefield dominated by physical gods and advanced murderbots on one side, and guys whose word is Emperor's law on the other.

 

Even they have their uses.

 

I'd agree the Desperado is a weaker character but he still has his uses. Fellowship is still useful in specific cases; whilst the Subtlety mechanic from DH2 isn't in the game, it pretty much describes how we play. Using influence implies exposure of the team to some extent, and - whilst using influence subtly is fine, there are times you can't really do that (such as trying to bluff your way past a guard). A Desperado's fellowship check is going to have a better chance of not going wrong than a -40 influence check - since you can't pull out an auto-pass when acting subtly; the Power Of The Rosette rule is not one compatible with being discrete. 

 

The moment the cell is prepared to say "No-one Expects The Spanish Imperial Inquisition!" and start acting 'in character', fellowship goes out the window except for Command checks, but prior to that point it can be quite useful. Master of Coin can be pretty useful, too, especially early on, where an effective +5 influence can make quite a difference. He also starts with a better Inquiry skill than a Hierophant and a better Fellowship than an Inquisitor/Interrogator; his only real peer in investigative shennanigans is the Judge. Equally, whilst a Magos may have him beaten for security work (although with Master of Locks and Tricks in his back pocket it's a close call), he can sneak up to the locked door, whilst the half-tonne cog-boy can't.

 

He's also better in a fight than Inquisitors or Interrogators - coming with Independent Targeting, Quick Draw, Ambidextrous and Gunfighter as standard in the Heed The Higher Call character set, along with an agility second only to the assassins.

This means that, combined with a pair of Mighty Shot boosted Bolt Pistols, he can, from a 'standing start', pump four bolt rounds down range and kill two 'human' targets dead without breaking a sweat before a judge or inquisitor's guns even clear their holsters. All right, other 'combat gods' will beat him in damage output but much of that is dependent on wargear you can't saunter into a bar carrying - best quality flak is virtually unnoticeable and you could get away with wearing it almost anywhere, whilst enforcer carapace is a little...err...obvious?

 

 

The Stormtrooper's main problem is the Palatine; who trades up an (effectively) best quality hellgun and best quality suit of carapace which doesn't encumber him for an (actually) best quality bolter and best quality suit of powered plate which weighs nothing and actually boosts her strength and ballistic skill, plus has the ability to turn into a holy nuke when needed. Which is, admittedly an issue.

 

He makes for the best driver/pilot by some margin, though, if you take Drop Trooper (and people tend to respect your character a lot more if they're sat in a gun-cutter), and the best guy to lead requisitioned troopers if you take Field Command - that spot initiative boost/reroll misses makes a squad of inducted stormtroopers scary as.


Edited by Magnus Grendel, 26 September 2013 - 04:08 AM.

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