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Calling squad mode abilities


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#1 simonblick

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:16 AM

Hi all,

 

At what point can you call a squad mode ability? Having some issues as DM thinks that i can only call it on my initiative! this make lightning strike almost useless. I think that i can call it at very beginning of round before any initiative has been called.

 

 

Is this correct?

 

Regards



#2 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:08 AM

Depends on the squad mode ability, but as far as I know he's correct. Anything that requires a full, half or even free action can only be done in your 'turn'.

 

That said, squad mode abilities on your 'go' benefit everyone - so calling several bolter assaults gives everyone multiple 'goes'.

I can't, I'm afraid, remember what Lightning Strike does.



#3 herichimo

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:19 AM

Solo and Squad Mode abilities have action costs (Free, Half, Full, Reaction) attached to them and therefore activate only when a character could normally use actions with similar costs.

 

This indeed means most abilities can only be used during a character's initiative, and abilities which cost a reaction may only be used as a reaction to an outside stimuli.



#4 Plasmafest

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

Hi all,

 

At what point can you call a squad mode ability? Having some issues as DM thinks that i can only call it on my initiative! this make lightning strike almost useless. I think that i can call it at very beginning of round before any initiative has been called.

 

 

 

Is this correct?

 

Regards

 

Lightning Strike is certainly used before your Turn as it takes place before Initiative is rolled (it grants a Surprise Round for those who can't recall) - but that's the specific effect of the ability, so it's not too great an example of timing in general. Soak Fire is a better example as it's essentially a Dodge, but used for the benefit of another team member, so using it before your own turn is fine as you would with a normal Dodge. 

   It's possible that most squad modes with activation by Reaction could be used before a PC's turn, but this should be discussed with the GM.



#5 simonblick

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:43 PM

Here's another one! If the leader is an ultramarine do we all get to use rally and lead by example even tho the rest of the party are of different chapters. Ie as a storm warden can I call lead by example as well as the ultramarine and we both get the re-roll and the plus to all rolls.

#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:46 PM

Here's another one! If the leader is an ultramarine do we all get to use rally and lead by example even tho the rest of the party are of different chapters. Ie as a storm warden can I call lead by example as well as the ultramarine and we both get the re-roll and the plus to all rolls.

 

Nope.



#7 simonblick

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:16 PM

So only ultramarine can call the squad mode and we get to join it?

#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:55 PM

So only ultramarine can call the squad mode and we get to join it?

 

You can neither call it nor join it unless you are an Ultramarine.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 21 December 2013 - 03:55 PM.


#9 Kshatriya

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

Or unless he is a Tacmarine with Tactical Expertise.

 

Or everyone has Forging the Bond.



#10 simonblick

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:06 AM

I'm confused now.... I'm a storm warden and I call lightning strike, so do I only get the lightning strike or does the whole squad get it?

#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:07 AM

Only you unless one of those other conditions applies to allow other Chapters to participate in your Chapter Squad Modes.



#12 simonblick

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:59 AM

Think im understanding it now...

 

Im a Stormwarden Tactical Marine and im the leader and Oath to the Emperor, we have an ultramarine and a Blood Angel too.

 

1) We can all benifit from our solo modes and squad modes Fire for Effect, Regroup and Strong Point.

 

2) Storm Warden also gets use of Lightning Strike and Shield and Sword.

 

3) The Ultramarine also gets Lead by Example and Rally Cry

 

4) The Blood Angel also gets Fury of Sanguinius and Feel No Pain

 

5) At the begining of combat i call Lightning Strike but only i get the benifit from it at a cost of 2 cohesion

 

6) However if there was another Storm warden then we would both gain Lighting Strike for only the 2 cohesion cost



#13 Kshatriya

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

Correct. With the caveats that Tactical Expertise and Forging the Bond change the default rules of who can benefit somewhat.



#14 Darshaagan

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:18 PM

So if you have Tactical Expertise all the others in your squad will get the benefit of Lightning Strike for 2 cohesion, if you succed on a command check (different difficulty depending on rank).



#15 Kshatriya

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

Correct. And you still have to be the one to call it since it's your Chapter's squad mode.



#16 musungu

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:20 AM

That got me a bit confused. In the Core Rulebook, the Oath-taking section's last sentence states, that "in addition to the listed Codex Squad Mode abilities the Kill-team will also have access to their leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities" - we took it to mean that the leader's activated chapter squad modes can be joined by the team.

Alternatively it could mean, that if we have, say, an Ultramarine leader, he can activate Lead by example, but it cannot be joined by others if the'yre not smurfs, while Armour of Faith (the other guy is a Black Templar) cannot be activated at all, since he is not the leader.

Since the group is pretty new, and I took up GM-ing Deathwatch only recently, there has been only a very light use of squad modes (I scaled down the enemies a bit to familiarize ourselves with the combat mechanics first, and also because the kill team consists of only two SMs). Anyway, I'd appreciate if you could help me clear up the confusion before Squad Modes become the deciding factor.



#17 Avdnm

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:27 AM

It's in the errata, everyone can use their own chapters squad modes. But to be honest, if a leader uses his chapter squad mode I'm not sure if it is limited to Kill-Team members of his chapter. Neither core rulebook nor errata is really precise about this question.


Edited by Avdnm, 21 January 2014 - 07:27 AM.


#18 musungu

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:45 AM

Thanks, valid point there, I have to check the Errata again. I purposefully ignored it for the first few sessions to give the players a bit more dakka than deserved, to counter their slight WH40K scepticism :) I'm planning to scale back next time - they took a liking to the game, so they're under my thumb now. [insert evil laugh]

Anyway, I'll try out letting them have the leader's squad mode for now, to lend some more meaning to the position and to emphasize the worldview/combat doctrines of their respective chapters, and I'll see what happens.

Anyway, if someone knows something definite about this, feedbacks are invited


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#19 Kshatriya

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

if a leader uses his chapter squad mode I'm not sure if it is limited to Kill-Team members of his chapter. Neither core rulebook nor errata is really precise about this question.

Yes, it is. Chapter Squad Modes are limited to members of the Chapter who are in the Kill-Team and in Squad Mode at the time, unless one of the aforementioned exceptions is applicable.



#20 Avdnm

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:20 AM

Yes, it is. Chapter Squad Modes are limited to members of the Chapter who are in the Kill-Team and in Squad Mode at the time, unless one of the aforementioned exceptions is applicable.

 

 

The reason why I'm not 100% sure on this is the mentioning in the oath-taking section(p228). "In addition to the listed Codex Squad Mode abilities the Kill-team will also have access to their leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities".

 

What bugs me here is, we know every Marine has access to his own Chapter Squad Mode abilities, so what's the intent on the mentioning here if not an extension? Also, there is no limitation listed here.

 

It still differs from the Tactical Marine's skill, because Tactical Expertise doesn't require the Tactical Marine to be the squad leader.

 

Besides, musungu's reasoning sounds good for me, as this would represent the leading style of the marine in charge.


Edited by Avdnm, 22 January 2014 - 02:20 AM.





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