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System redo. What to keep/lose?


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#121 GauntZero

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:38 AM

I am really against tying anything more to Agility.

 

It is an near-to-be-overpowered characteristic as is, tying it to AP will make the games focus way to much on it.

 

I really like the fixed AP. It also makes things easier. If you have higher Ag, you already are able to walk further and evade more likely, thats enough Ag-benefit.

 

Why should I anyway be able to aim more if I am faster ? Depending on the action taken, it would be better to have Agility, Perception or even Intelligence higher to do it more efficiently.

As it is therefore to tie general AP to a certain characteristic, keeping it fixed is good as is.

 

If you really need to have 1 AP more for certain fast characters, make it a special talent or trait.

As an alternative, it could be tied to a psy power or cybernetic (similar to Shadowrun).


Edited by GauntZero, 28 September 2013 - 09:39 AM.

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#122 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:54 AM

"I really like the fixed AP. It also makes things easier."

 

This from the person who prefers more crunch and complexity?

 

Agility (and thus Agility Bonus) being hobbled by heavy/bulky/restrictive armour reduces the number of Actions a person can take in a Turn and balances with a PC wearing less heavy/bulky/restrictive armour (read as less protective) being able to take more Actions. A Player has to make a choice- this choice is one of preference based on the type of role he/she wants a PC to perform within an Inquisitorial Cadre. Is the PC swift and harder to hit? Or is the PC's movement and economy of Actions sacrificed for greater personal protection?

 

Likewise, certain Psychic Powers, Injury Effects, and other factors will reduce a PC's Agility (even temporarily), which in turn reduces the number of Actions a PC can take in his/her Turn.

 

To answer your question : "Why should I be able to Aim better/longer if I am faster?" If I am faster, I can move from point A to point B faster. Getting to my new position more swiftly allows me to devote more time to Aiming, whereas being clumsy, rotund, sluggish, athletically impaired, or what have you, leaves me less time to align my shot...or I could just stand still, and take more time to Aim at the expense of making it easier for my opponent to shoot me.

 

A Round is @5 seconds, and a Turn is (theoretically) just a fraction of that time.  A PC with an Agility Bonus of 4 would have 5 AP- in that time, he/she could walk down a short hallway (1 AP to move up to 6 meters), take some insignifant leisure to Aim at an Administratum informant sitting behind his cubicle desk (+2 AP), take a single shot (+1 AP), then spend his/her last AP moving into the room and around the desk in preparation of searching the corpse and the contents of the desk drawers. I think all of that is quite reasonably performed within the fraction of time allotted a PC within a Turn that lasts a mere 5 seconds. A PC wearing heavy assault carapace might have his/her Agility capped at 35, so Agility Bonus is reduced to 3, thus reducing available AP by one, which means he/she has less time to Aim.

 

Simply put, Agility has previously determined how fast a PC can move. This set the precedence, and should by now be a concept that is easily and intuitively understood. How fast a PC moves thus determines the number of Actions he/she can perform within a Turn. A clumsy PC may not be able to hold a gun properly, resulting in less time to Aim. Why even consider tying AP to Intelligence or Perception? I'm an obese mess so I'm not very agile, but I've read all about karate, so that makes me really good at it? Or, I'm an obese mess so I'm not very agile, but I notice the little things all the time, and simply observing a karate master over the course of a week makes me really good at it? No, and no.

 

I fully intend to explore Talents/Traits that would result in bonus AP, such as Preternatural Speed. I also intend to explore the possibility of Unnatural Characteristic (Agility) resulting in bonus AP, though not on a one-for-one basis. In this way it is possible to literally make a horse much faster than a man on foot, or properly convey the swift yet fragile Eldar. Most importantly, I will be looking at the development of Characteristics, severely limiting their increase and assigning Characteristic maximums, mainly because a d% game engine fails when TNs exceed 100, and nothing should ever be automatically successful.

 

Tying AP to Agility is no more and no less an issue than tying success or failure at a ring toss game to Ballistic Skill. Why shouldn't a PC be allowed to used his Agility to ensure he/she is holding the ring in an optimum position before making the toss to be successful? Or Strength because because he/she has noticed a top-prize ring peg subtly marked as being rigged for automatic failure if the ring is weakly flung? Do you realize how practiced, skilled and talented a person has to be to be a successful, professionally competing archer? Would you limit his success to Ballistic Skill? Why not Agility, or Intelligence, or Perception? In the end, the rebuttal position of AP being tied to Agility being inappropriate is nothing more and nothing less than a matter of narrow perspective and a lack of willingness to play test rules proposals and House Rules.


Edited by Brother Orpheo, 28 September 2013 - 11:10 AM.

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#123 GauntZero

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:18 PM

Yeah - funny to hear this from a complex person like me, heh ? ;)

I played a lot shadowrun, where they kind of have a very variable init-system, that indirectly
Provides more actions for faster characters - here it is more based on reaction and intuition though.

On the one hand i liked that - on the other hand, this was always something creating problems and odd situations from time to time.

And if you grant a person more AP than another - is it fair to give the additional AP all in the same moment ? Or would it be better to grant some at a later time, to give the slower characters a chance to act at all.

To put it short: I think the problems which could occur would be too immense to add it.

If more than 4 AP are granted, this should be very very strictly limited, and never be more than -6.
Everything else will turn your fight into a mess - with Eldar being the kings of the mess, as you die before you see them coming.

Respect your brothers and you will also be respected.


#124 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:44 PM

If more than 4 AP are granted, this should be very very strictly limited, and never be more than -6.
Everything else will turn your fight into a mess - with Eldar being the kings of the mess, as you die before you see them coming.

 

Isn't that the MO of Eldar? Attacking swiftly out of nowhere, seemingly everywhere at once? But one solid hit and they're revealed as the glass cannon they are.

 

Anyway...

By the way I've written my proposal, PCs use all of their AP in their own Turn, unless they've taken a Delay Action (not yet posted, but I have it here). Initiative works exactly as DH1e's, however, and just because a PC goes earlier in a Turn doesn't mean he's necessarily being helpful. An Inquisitorial Cadre is successful when they work in synergy- Swifty might be able to get that killing shot off right away, putting a messy end to Mister Evil, but what if Doctor Rotundslug wanted to find out the antidote to the binary poison that's coursing through his veins? Without the antidote, Rotundslug is as good as dead, and Swifty killed him.  


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