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Zhar's "gates galore" special power


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#1 jackman51

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:30 PM

Okay I've searched these boards and BGG but though the question has been asked I see no good answer. Specifically what the OP asked in this BGG thread, first post.

 

http://boardgamegeek...-does-this-work

 

Exactly when do you roll for this effect--right after placing the first gate (and I presume monster) or after resolving the entire first mythos card?

 



#2 Julia

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:41 PM

You're right, it's a tricky one. I usually draw and resolve the first Mythos, then, if a new gate opened, I roll the dice and see what happens. But clearly, it's an interpretation.

 

EDIT: I dropped a message to FFG using the "Rules Questions" option. As soon as I get an answer, I'll post it here and over at BGG


Edited by Julia, 12 September 2013 - 04:46 PM.

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#3 jackman51

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:00 AM

You're right, it's a tricky one. I usually draw and resolve the first Mythos, then, if a new gate opened, I roll the dice and see what happens. But clearly, it's an interpretation.

 

EDIT: I dropped a message to FFG using the "Rules Questions" option. As soon as I get an answer, I'll post it here and over at BGG

 

I keep wondering if the intent of the Cascading effect of the gate openings was to limit it to no more than two a turn to thematically reflect the Dual Horror nature of Zhar. But of course that would defy the AO card as written--extremely irritating to have several gates open on one turn and unlikely as it is end the game on the first turn.



#4 Julia

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:44 AM

Ok, I got an e-mail from Tim Uren with the official clarification on how Zhar's ability works. I'll post this on the BGG and in the Official Answer thread so that it remains visible

 

JULIA

 

_____________________

 

Hi Julia,

Thanks for the question! The short answer is Zhar's ability does interrupt the steps of resolving a mythos card. Finish resolving the card once the ability stops adding more mythos cards.
 
To address some of the specifics, when investigators must open a gate, the doom track advances and then the gate opens. At that point, before a monster appears, roll the two dice for Zhar's ability. If doubles are rolled, start resolving another mythos card. If investigators must open a gate while resolving this card, the doom track advances, the gate opens, and then roll 2 dice for Zhar's ability again. Once you resolve a mythos card without Zhar's ability causing you to resolve another card, finish resolving each of the mythos cards that were drawn. Start with the one most recently drawn and proceed in the order opposite to that in which they were drawn.
 
When resolving a mythos card that opens two gates, do not advance the doom track, but open the gates one at a time in the order in which they appear on the card. So, it is possible for Zhar's ability to create a string of mythos cards from the first gate and then, after all of the cards in that string have been completely resolved, to create a second string of mythos cards opening the second gate.
 
The mythos ability of each card is resolved after the gate opens. So, for determining which environment card takes precedence:
The mythos ability of each environment mythos card replaces previous environment cards. (The earliest environment drawn in a string of mythos cards will take precedence over others because it will be the last environment resolved. Hopefully that bit of bookkeeping makes sense.)
 
For determining which rumor card takes precedence when resolving a string of mythos cards:
Ignore the mythos ability of rumor cards if a rumor is already in play. (So if no rumor was in play before resolving this string of cards, the last rumor card drawn will be the only one put into play since it will be resolved before any other rumors.)
 
Hopefully that provides a not-too confusing model of how to handle Zhar's ability.
 
Tim Uren
Associate Creative Content Developer

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#5 jackman51

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

Thanks again to both Julia for taking this seriously and Tim for such a concise response. It appears from the answer the issue was a bit more complex than I at first thought since I never really even thought of environment or rumor cards. Also the exact order of card resolution is different than I had been playing. Nevertheless the answer is now clear.

 

And again thank you especially Julia.


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#6 Julia

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:58 AM

You're welcome :) I've always been playing this wrongly so far, so, I'm glad we now have a n official clarification. Must say Tim is totally awesome, quick in giving answers and very kind. And this ruling makes Zhar somehow more interesting to play :)


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#7 jackman51

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

Omg! Can you imagine playing Zhar with Father Dagon Herald?! Maybe three gates on the first turn cascading! Turn out the lights-the party is over!



#8 Julia

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

Omg! Can you imagine playing Zhar with Father Dagon Herald?! Maybe three gates on the first turn cascading! Turn out the lights-the party is over!

 

It's on my list... not so sure when exactly, but it's on the list... and I really do hope not to roll to many doubles...


Edited by Julia, 24 September 2013 - 04:09 PM.

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#9 jackman51

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:14 PM

Well that should be amusing. Perhaps the math should be done on this one to find out how likely it really is for 7 or 8 gates to open on the first turn. The thought of even 4 or 5 is nauseating.



#10 Julia

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

That's easier. Out of 36 possible results, 6 are doubles, so every turn you have 1/6 chance of having a double rolled. Then, if you want to know what are the odds of having N gates opening in a row, the equation is:

 

(1/6)^N

 

so, 4 gates in a row is 0.08%. Quite low. Two gates is 2.8 %.

 

In a game with 10 gates opening (the max you can without counting on ES to avoid final battle), the odds of NOT rolling doubles are:

 

(1-1/6)^10 = 16.15 %


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#11 The Professor

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:30 AM

Julia,

 

     We love it when you get all math-geeky with us! :rolleyes:

 

Ciao,

Joe


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#12 Julia

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:56 AM

Julia,

 

     We love it when you get all math-geeky with us! :rolleyes:

 

Ciao,

Joe

 

:laughter: I had to, being married to a mad geophysicist requires sacrifices :whistling innocently:


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#13 The Professor

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:45 AM

Julia,

 

     when you say "mad scientist" it made me think of the famous Mark Twain comment: "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself."

 

 

Ciao,

Joe


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#14 Julia

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:09 AM

And I always feel like Penny watching Sheldon sayin' "It's a warm summer evening in ancient Greece" :rofl:


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#15 jackman51

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:59 AM

Just the idea of starting off possibly 3 gates and not that unlikely 4  in the hole first turn seems like enough to say time to try a different herald-lol. I'm not even sure what I'd do to start in a situation like that--maybe send everyone to the Science Building and hope to draw the Gate closing experiment .



#16 Julia

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

Ok, that's another good one. The odds of not rolling any doubles while setting up the game with Dagon is 69.44%. So, more or less 1 game out of 3 you start with three doomers on the doom track. Still, 8 full Mythos are enough to win the game if you play 4 or 5 decent investigators (and clearly, a party with Vincent, Mary and the other fellows starting with zero clues is only meat).

 

Ok, now I want to try this one (facepalm)


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