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Monsters moved one space and warping?


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#1 Cursain

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:06 PM

AltWren posted an interesting OL dilemma where heroes can "warp" multi spaced monsters far from their placing due to an ability or weapon surge "moving them one space".

 

I've posted the following question and image for FFG to review and comment on.

 

Some heroes have weapons that move monsters. I'd like to know where the placement of the shadow dragon (1 red) would be if the adjacent scout rolled two surges and used one of them to "move the target 1 space".  Please review this picture https://www.dropbox....nster Moved.jpg

Would it actually get pushed to one of the grey ovals?

 

https://www.dropbox....nster Moved.jpg


Thank you
-Cursain


Edited by Cursain, 10 September 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#2 Kunzite

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

Your link is broken... I can't see your example.


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#3 Cursain

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:12 PM

Try it now. I added a new link.  There was a period at the end of the URL by accident.



#4 Robin

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:27 PM

On the left, there is a nearer 3x2 zone, with 1st space at 4 spaces distance (dragon 'horizontal').
An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#5 AltWren

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:17 AM

I know that map!  It's Cardinal's Plight, that damn map where I failed all those rolls.  Looks like that dragon would be moved to the Entrance tile, the upper-leftmost tile.

 

Now, I don't know if this would happen with the whip, since it just says move the monster one space, but it's definitely the case with my old buddy Steelhorns, who reads "Move this figure to an adjacent empty space (or closest empty space) of your choice."



#6 AltWren

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:41 AM

Actually, can I play that whole turn?  I can win it from here.  Ok, the top guy near that Dragon is Steelhorns.  He's going to use his heroic and shove that Dragon into the entrance tile.  He's going to move into all those Flesh Moulders and attack whoever he can with skills.  Maybe he kills some, doesn't matter.  His job is done.

 

Now Silhouette is the southernmost hero.  She's going to use her heroic to pick up every treasure on the map.  I think there's one she can't reach with the heroic, so for that one, she's going to fatigue into it and then use her second action to pick it up.  Now the portal is definitely open.

 

So now we go to the hero furthest away from the action.  That's Master Thorn.  He's going to fatigue once to move forward, then teleport across the map to Merrick, who he attacks twice at point blank range for heavy damage.

 

Final move is Avric, who moves and fatigues over to Merrick to stun and finish him with his mace.

 

In the event Avric or Thorn fail to kill this turn, the OL can make some attacks, but none of it matters because next round Avric heals the entire party for 2 red dice, so probably about 5 health each, and he's got his ability and skills if anyone needs more (no fatigue?  That's ok, Silhouette just got 8 treasure cards.  One of them was surely a stamina potion.)  If Merrick was dumb and raised a zombie, Steelhorns will laugh and kill it.  Then Avric and Thorn will continue to beat down Merrick with at least 3 more attacks.  Silhouette shouldn't even be needed.

 

Merrick dies, everyone gets full fatigue and their Heroic Feats back.  That was fun.  Onto the next part!



#7 Cursain

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:25 AM

I added onto the question AltWren, by altering it for Steelhorns special ability.  Steelhorns is probably going to win the show here. He's the warp king probably since he can choose where the monsters are placed.



#8 RagsMckay

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:12 AM

There is a answer to this based off of the thread from BGG. On that thread FFG sayz that the movent from crosbow must originate from the targeted space. So I would say that if you cannot expand into a space one space away from the targeted space, then the monster cannot be moved.


I die...A lot.


#9 griton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:56 AM

Yeah, this depends largely on the ability. If it's a simple move, it may not be possible (but it's uncertain at the moment if all movement of enemy figures follow the Steelhorns rule or not). If it's an ability that places the monster or, like Steelhorns' Heroic Feat, specifically says "or in the nearest empty space", it would either go from the targeted square (top-left) to the entrance tile since the space in front of the entrance tile is only 3 spaces away. Alternatively, if the targeted square was bottom-left, then it could also be placed as far left of where it currently is without changing orientation (the new bottom-right corner is 4 spaces away, as is the space from the previous example).



#10 Husker949

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

In the picture as shown, and per the errata on using items like the hand crossbow that will allow the player to move a monster one space. There is no legal move for the dragon to go when shrinking so that it will not be moved at all. You need to use the target space that you hit the dragon with the weapon to be your initial point of shrinking down, and then if when re-expanding, it would result in an illegal move, you cannot move the monster to that position.



#11 Cursain

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:52 AM

One thing I have to say is FFG has awesome customer service.  They already responded to both of these questions:

 

---------------------------------------

**This is in regards to the whip moving the monster**

 

Hey Cursain,

 

Nope, if the figure wouldn't be eligible to "expand" into the space it would be moved to, it cannot be moved into that space. Even if such a thing were possible and the "closest empty space" rule triggered, the closest empty spaces in your example would be the one from which the dragon originated.

 

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

**This is in response to the Steelhorns question**

 

Hey Cursain,

 

In this particular case, (in contrast to my previous answer) since the figure *must* be moved, it would indeed be placed in a fashion not dissimilar from what you've shown in the image.

 

However, it depends upon the precise situation of when Steelhorns enters the occupied space during his Heroic Feat. From that space, you would count 1 space in an available direction, and then from that space you would count to the closest empty space. Remember that when figures are moved like this, the movement is started at a "target space." In the case of attacks, it's quite literally the targeted space. In the case of Steelhorns, it's the space he enters.

 

So: if the hero on the upper-right was Steelhorns, He would enter the top-left space of the shadow dragon. Then, he would choose in which direction the dragon would move. If he moves the dragon left, down, or up-left, then actually (instead of your leftmost destination space), the dragon would be placed on the entrance, just above the top-left hero (which is closer in each case). If he moved right or down-right, it would actually be 4 spaces to both the aforementioned entrance and to the space just to the right of the topmost flesh moulder.

 

I know that's a bit wordy, but does it make sense?

 

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com



#12 centralx

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

If I was to understand the Steelhorns comment I think if I was playing against steel horns I would avoid large creatures in tight spaces. Maybe even stick to small creatures. Interesting, thanks for sharing.



#13 Cursain

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:41 AM

If I was to understand the Steelhorns comment I think if I was playing against steel horns I would avoid large creatures in tight spaces. Maybe even stick to small creatures. Interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

Basically, what FFG is saying about Steelhorns is if you intend to block him, you can't.  Big creatures have the unfortunate added problem of potentially being warped around the map.



#14 centralx

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:35 AM

That's why I say big creatures against steelhorns can be really bad really quick. If you fling a large slow thing like a dragon across the map the dragon is almost useless because it would take so long for the dragon to get back. I am not sure how else you can assure that not to happen. 

 

Fortunately I am playing with 2e stuff and I think he is from the conversion kit so I don't have to worry about him. 



#15 Steve-O

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

Fortunately I am playing with 2e stuff and I think he is from the conversion kit so I don't have to worry about him. 

 

Yes, he is.  Steelhorns is an old 1E hero.

 

And yeah, the answer if Steelhorns is causing problems is either to use smaller monsters wherever possible or to make sure you leave room "nearby" so that the closest empty space the large monster can fit into is not half way across the map.  That may not always be possible, but it's just another tactical consideration, like any other.



#16 AltWren

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:28 PM

I wish there was a tough little monster.  The ones I try die in a turn.






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