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#1 WillisRBC

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

Seems the players I have don't have much interest in piloting Y-Wings. They'd rather fly X-Wings. Anyone given any thought to substituting he Y-Wing specific option with a generic "fighter squadron" entry?

#2 Ineti

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

I think the idea behind the Y-Wings is that the X-Wings are the elite fighters of the Alliance and likely reserved for elite pilots who've proven themselves. Giving a squadron of the best fighters to a bunch of newbies may not make much sense.

 

But, it's your game. Do what it takes to make you and your players happy. ;)



#3 Emperor Norton

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:17 PM

I was probably going to start my group with hyperdrive equipped Z-95s, due to the "X-Wings are elite" thing. Or perhaps a medium freighter and NPC crew with hanger space for standard Z-95s.

Edited by Emperor Norton, 06 September 2013 - 08:17 PM.


#4 Chortles

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:25 PM

I was probably going to start my group with hyperdrive equipped Z-95s, due to the "X-Wings are elite" thing. Or perhaps a medium freighter and NPC crew with hanger space for standard Z-95s.

And it's consistent with the "X-wings are basically upgraded Z-95s" dynamic. :P

 

Alternately/note though that once the players get X-wings, they should be more likely (to say the least) to be going up against TIE Interceptors instead of TIE/LNs...


 

Well, according to George Lucas, the Empire is intended to be bad guys and the Sith to be objectively evil.

Fans proceeded to immediately disregard his bull and have fun with the Empire and make believable characters left and right, and come up with sensible rationalizations east, west, north and south.

 


#5 Yoshiyahu

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:47 PM

 

I was probably going to start my group with hyperdrive equipped Z-95s, due to the "X-Wings are elite" thing. Or perhaps a medium freighter and NPC crew with hanger space for standard Z-95s.

And it's consistent with the "X-wings are basically upgraded Z-95s" dynamic. :P

 

Alternately/note though that once the players get X-wings, they should be more likely (to say the least) to be going up against TIE Interceptors instead of TIE/LNs...

 

 

True, though I personally would probably let them feel powerful against TIE/LN's for a little bit before evening the odds. If they immediately start encountering TIE Interceptors, and only TIE Interceptors once they've secured their X-Wings, it might stretch suspension of disbelief a bit.


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#6 fjw70

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:21 PM

I would totally do the X-Wing option.

I am not a fan of putting the cool stuff off until later. It's a game, get the cool stuff now.

#7 Chortles

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:50 PM

True, timing matters, but I would think of it this way: in current EU lore the TIE interceptor was commissioned as an X-wing counter as early as approximately a year before the Battle of Yavin, noticeably before Edge of the Empire (while by default Age of Rebellion is after Hoth), so while you can "let them feel powerful against TIE/LNs for a little bit before evening the odds" once they're allowed into X-wings, it should made clear to the players -- for example, by them "happening" to overhear snippets of incoming intel reports -- that the Imperial Navy is responding to their shows of force by, for example, shifting about its TIE Interceptor deployments to try and counter your players' X-wings... or maybe the Navy can try to draw your players into an ambush where the TIE/LNs are accompanied by TIE interceptors; the current Star Wars ongoing comic has this happening as early as 2 months ABY. ;)

 

(Fun with lore: The TIE Advanced x1 that Vader used in Episode IV was specifically commissioned by him but he permitted the designer to offer it to the Navy; the Navy however only bought enough to equip a few squadrons though; while EU lore sometimes attributes this to dogma regarding hyperdrive-equipped fighters or 'military-industrial complex' type nepotism, the official excuse was cost, though someone either forgot about or willfully ignored the concept of "economies of scale"... nevertheless, the TIE interceptor was a lot cheaper.)


 

Well, according to George Lucas, the Empire is intended to be bad guys and the Sith to be objectively evil.

Fans proceeded to immediately disregard his bull and have fun with the Empire and make believable characters left and right, and come up with sensible rationalizations east, west, north and south.

 


#8 ErikB

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

I am not a fan of putting the cool stuff off until later. It's a game, get the cool stuff now.

 

Too right. Let em have their X-Wings. 


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#9 That Blasted Samophlange

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:09 AM

I'm not necessarily a fan of just giving the players what they want because the ask (or whine) for it.   It comes down to this in my opinion: they should have to work for rewards.  Proving you're a competant fighter and getting an x-wing from because of your alliance commendation (from duty) should be an impactful moment, not because you are just given it. 


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#10 ErikB

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:44 AM

It comes down to this in my opinion: they should have to work for rewards.

 

Would it help to see the reward on offer as the player being recognised by his peers to have made up a cool story about x-wing fighters?

 

Anyway, you can upgrade your X-Wing. You start with a bog standard factory spec T-65A, assigned to you straight out of training,

 

spitfire-site-65sqn-1939-708446.jpg

 

and as new models come onstream you trade up until you reach an ace custom T-65D-4LF fitted with vastly more powerful engines with cropped plasma precombustion turbines that give it an edge even over the improved versions of the TIE Defender.

 

tanks45dotripoddotcom-Spiteful.jpg


Edited by ErikB, 07 September 2013 - 05:52 AM.

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#11 Jegergryte

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:52 AM

Giving them X-wings could be cool. Giving them Y-wings is cool - I like those fighters, particularly the one with a gunner, it's pretty awesome.

 

I'd probably offer my own players Z95s if they wanted less heavy fighter... I'd also consider giving my group a Wayfarer, or other fitting silhouette 5 ship, including the hangar bay retrofit (perhaps including some modification options so they can at least have 2 silhouette 3 ships aboard) to let some of my players be starship jockeys and the others be home base.


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#12 Yoshiyahu

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:33 AM

True, timing matters, but I would think of it this way: in current EU lore the TIE interceptor was commissioned as an X-wing counter as early as approximately a year before the Battle of Yavin, noticeably before Edge of the Empire (while by default Age of Rebellion is after Hoth), so while you can "let them feel powerful against TIE/LNs for a little bit before evening the odds" once they're allowed into X-wings, it should made clear to the players -- for example, by them "happening" to overhear snippets of incoming intel reports -- that the Imperial Navy is responding to their shows of force by, for example, shifting about its TIE Interceptor deployments to try and counter your players' X-wings... or maybe the Navy can try to draw your players into an ambush where the TIE/LNs are accompanied by TIE interceptors; the current Star Wars ongoing comic has this happening as early as 2 months ABY.

 

Oh, absolutely. That's probably one of the better ways to handle it, too. My point was simply that in most tabletop games, if your party acquires a neat ability or piece of equipment, and you (as a GM/DM) immediately start throwing things at the party that either mitigate or counter their new abilities entirely, it can make the process of acquiring that new stuff less rewarding to the players. Not always, of course, but it's a temptation I've seen some GM's struggle to avoid.


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#13 copperbell

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:01 AM

Give them the X-Wings then after the first adventure have them or a few of them stolen by a scoundrel and they spend most of the campaign chasing them since their nemesis stole them for the Empire who are using them to frame the Rebellion and unfortunately because they couldn't inform their superiors before beginning to chase the villain they have been subsequently framed as a traitor by their former allies so need to prove their innocence as well as keep up with their stolen fighters...

 

On the plus side reveal that because they're stuck with Z-95's the Imperials aren't sending their best after them since they're unaware of their identities... which is handy since the scoundrel told them the PCs were killed so aren't expecting them to come looking for their former fighters!

 

Otherwise take a look at the smuggler/trooper old republic video's on you tube for a better explanation of this idea.


Edited by copperbell, 07 September 2013 - 09:02 AM.


#14 copperbell

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:16 AM

I was thinking of opening up a game where the players are running potential recruits for a rebel cell except they've been used as a cats paw for the people they thought was recruiting them and find themselves within an abandoned Clone Wars base holding a freighter and say three to five fighters, maybe 3 Z-95's and 2 Y-Wings hmm maybe another choice but no X-Wings could even have them being taken by the other rebel recruit npcs and they witness TIEs in pursuit of them giving them a bit of time to get out themselves provided they don't start arguing because there's no X-Wings (and yes I can see the players doing that!).

 

Hmm perhaps have a rendezvous location revealing a Venator or a CR-90 carrier and a limited time to jump out of the system before their pursuers get into range enough to identify their ship?



#15 Split Light

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:11 PM

Y-Wings seem like a logical ship to me because it allows players to take on multiple rolls.  They are two seaters, so if somebody doesn't want to be a pilot, they can do the gunnery, damage control, astrogation, or other background stuff. 

 

That said, if everybody wants to pilot, I don't think it would be to game breaking to give them an alternative ship type.  X-Wings can't be that elite if they give one to the random farmboy with no combat experience when he shows up on Yavin.



#16 Emperor Norton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:18 PM

Random farmboy that just showed up with the captured Alderaanian princess and the plans to the Death Star, and was a student (no matter how briefly) of General Obi-wan Kenobi in the ways of the Force.

And if you dig into the EU, it helps that they had an extra X-Wing because of one of the Red squadron pilots was deathly ill from a complication from a previous injury, and that it makes more sense to put a pilot with tons of experience in a T-16 in an X-Wing, as they mention that it is incredibly similar to the point that Rebels used T-16s as trainers, than to move a Y-Wing pilot over into a ship he wasn't familiar with, and away from his normal squadron, and giving Luke a Y-Wing that he wouldn't be as familiar with.

"Random farmboy" is not quite what happened.

Edited by Emperor Norton, 11 September 2013 - 04:19 PM.


#17 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:37 PM

That said, if everybody wants to pilot, I don't think it would be to game breaking to give them an alternative ship type.  X-Wings can't be that elite if they give one to the random farmboy with no combat experience when he shows up on Yavin.

As tends to happen with the EU (where even the most minor and insignificant background character has a name and a full history), things have been "fleshed out" quite a bit more to justify why a "random farmboy" got assigned an X-Wing.

 

Going by just the movie and its novelization, the fact that Leia was a major figure in the Alliance and that Luke not only wanted to help but had damn good scores in the flight simulators probably helped land him a spot in Red Squadron.  And since he'd also be deemed a hero for helping to secure the Death Star plans for their return to the Rebel Alliance, to say nothing of having actively rescued one of their major leaders... well, if the kid with damn fine raw piloting skills wants to pitch in some more and fly a starfighter during what many other pilots deemed a suicide mission and he's got one of the major leaders of your quasi-military operation vouching for him, why not?  It's quite likely that most folks (such as Han) viewed every pilot going on that mission as being a dead man walking, something that makes his final words to Luke while loading his reward rather poignant; his offer to have Luke join him wasn't just out of greed, but an attempt to save the kid's life.  Granted, things worked out rather differently, but if Han hadn't turned around and shown up at the last second...


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#18 Chortles

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

The above also gives weight to why Biggs and Wedge would so try to cover Luke's life... any cost within their own ability to pay to ensure the Death Star's destruction.


 

Well, according to George Lucas, the Empire is intended to be bad guys and the Sith to be objectively evil.

Fans proceeded to immediately disregard his bull and have fun with the Empire and make believable characters left and right, and come up with sensible rationalizations east, west, north and south.

 


#19 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:03 PM

The above also gives weight to why Biggs and Wedge would so try to cover Luke's life... any cost within their own ability to pay to ensure the Death Star's destruction.

There was a cut scene in the original film release of Biggs praising Luke's skills as a pilot, so I can certainly see Biggs working to protect his "kid brother" during the trench run.  Wedge I figure was a case of not being all that confident in the mission, but having seen enough of Luke's raw talent to figure the farmboy had a better chance at hitting the target than he did.

 

One might almost imagine his line of thinking being "You know, that comment about him bulls-eying womp rats in his T-16 back home might not just be the usual brand of bragging that you see in fighter pilots... hell. the kid might actually be able to pull this off."  Lends a bit more weight to his "sorry" when Luke orders him to pull out rather than die a senseless death.


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