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How do I stop this B*tch?


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#21 CaelanCross

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

Yes, the immobilization rules are stupid but what can you do?

 

The condition i'm looking into now is Curse which prevents heroes from activating skills and abilities that cost an action to activate, like Sil's heroic feat.  Unfortunately, I don't own the expansion (one of my players does) so I can't look at the cards right now, but does anyone know off hand any good monsters that can inflict this condition? 



#22 griton

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

I can definitely see where FFG is coming from with a lot of the movement decisions. Having an ability that is only usable once in an encounter that's supposed to be Heroic suddenly stopped can feel extremely disheartening. And while this is a competitive game, having the campaign be the focus, where for most groups, heroes are "stuck" being heroes until the campaign is finished, if they keep feeling squashed with everything they try to do, it can be tough to keep them interested in playing. (Trust me, I've run into this as it is). I'm really hesitant to adjust some of these rules because then the balance may swing the other way (instead of settling in the center), and if it swings too far, players don't want to play.



#23 Cursain

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

I can definitely see where FFG is coming from with a lot of the movement decisions. Having an ability that is only usable once in an encounter that's supposed to be Heroic suddenly stopped can feel extremely disheartening. And while this is a competitive game, having the campaign be the focus, where for most groups, heroes are "stuck" being heroes until the campaign is finished, if they keep feeling squashed with everything they try to do, it can be tough to keep them interested in playing. (Trust me, I've run into this as it is). I'm really hesitant to adjust some of these rules because then the balance may swing the other way (instead of settling in the center), and if it swings too far, players don't want to play.

 

I think you just made a very important post griton.  The ultimate campaign is one that is finished, not quit by one or more players part way through.

 

Though it sucks, we have to remember there are five particular personalities that need to be "appeased" during the campaign, and four of them sit on one side of the fence.

-Cursain



#24 AltWren

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

But I like getting 500 gold an adventure...

 

4 - 50 gold treasures

4 - 25 gold treasures

1 - Act 1 item card worth 100 gold

1 - 100 gold reward for Fat Goblin

 

Ability refreshes between encounters, no card in the OL deck can stop it from happening and any monster in the way gets whipped repeatedly, should the other three fail to kill it before Silhouette moves.  I see no problem here.   We get 500 gold and an XP, OL gets an XP to buy a new card that won't affect us for next encounter either.  Perfectly balanced. 



#25 CaelanCross

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:52 PM

Make that 550 gold, you guys picked up Chainmail for your free treasure which is worth 150gp :(  

 

Just you wait though, next time you play OL we are going to make the most broken party in history with Steelhorns, Silhouette, Zyla (the mage that flies) and Aurim you gets a free search card each map just to add that extra F*U  



#26 AltWren

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:55 PM

We didn't actually get anything yet.  We have to redo the first part of Fat Goblin because somebody didn't grasp the concept of reinforcing at the entrance.  Stupid Merroids spawning 4 to 6 squares further than they should have...



#27 daggonthing

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

 Stupid Merroids spawning 4 to 6 squares further than they should have...

 lol yes those Merriods can be deadly, even when spawning at the entrance. And they were spawning further in? That must have sucked real bad  :D Though not quite as bad as my first time as OL, where I screwed over the heroes on the 2nd part of Cardinal's Plight because I neglected to tell them that monsters would spawn when they opened the doors to the key rooms. Needless to say, they separated and got massacred.

 

-Daggon


Edited by daggonthing, 08 September 2013 - 07:53 PM.


#28 Kunzite

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

I can definitely see where FFG is coming from with a lot of the movement decisions. Having an ability that is only usable once in an encounter that's supposed to be Heroic suddenly stopped can feel extremely disheartening. And while this is a competitive game, having the campaign be the focus, where for most groups, heroes are "stuck" being heroes until the campaign is finished, if they keep feeling squashed with everything they try to do, it can be tough to keep them interested in playing. (Trust me, I've run into this as it is). I'm really hesitant to adjust some of these rules because then the balance may swing the other way (instead of settling in the center), and if it swings too far, players don't want to play.

 

Having an OL card to stop heroic feats is the same as missing when your roll of an attack on your feat. My scout (when he was playing the warrior last campaign) had that issue.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

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#29 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

It's one thing for the OL to say 'no, you don't get to feat, here's a card', but it's another thing entirely to have the dice say it. The former is a crafty, sneaky, underhanded, devious play by a sentient being sabotaging the actions of another being; the latter is just rotten luck by funny symbols on some geometric doodad.

I can flavor the movement through Immobilization heroic feats as a 'burst of adrenaline, everything's on the line, let's fight through whatever's holding me back!" sort of thing. After all, these are heroic feats; acts that are spoken of in taverns all over Terrinoth. In that vein, what Kunzite is talking about from our last campaign, poor Grisban missed on his Heroic Feat so often the taverns were alight with laughter about the folly of "Grisban the Blind" and his heroically poor aim.

 

...Till he walked in the door with the head of the legendary dragon Gryvorn dragging behind him.


Edited by PlainWhiteBread, 08 September 2013 - 10:09 PM.

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#30 daggonthing

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:09 AM


It's one thing for the OL to say 'no, you don't get to feat, here's a card', but it's another thing entirely to have the dice say it. The former is a crafty, sneaky, underhanded, devious play by a sentient being sabotaging the actions of another being; the latter is just rotten luck by funny symbols on some geometric doodad.

I can flavor the movement through Immobilization heroic feats as a 'burst of adrenaline, everything's on the line, let's fight through whatever's holding me back!" sort of thing. After all, these are heroic feats; acts that are spoken of in taverns all over Terrinoth. In that vein, what Kunzite is talking about from our last campaign, poor Grisban missed on his Heroic Feat so often the taverns were alight with laughter about the folly of "Grisban the Blind" and his heroically poor aim.

 

...Till he walked in the door with the head of the legendary dragon Gryvorn dragging behind him.

This right here says it all. Rolling dice is a stroke of luck, playing an OL card is not. I will admit there is some luck involved in the OL having to draw the card, but after that it's strategy, not pure luck. Also, while a hero being able to move 10 spaces while immobilized doesn't really make that much sense per se, let's not forget it is a Heroic Feat. Meaning that it is something deemed impossible or nearly impossible by common folk.

 

-Daggon


Edited by daggonthing, 09 September 2013 - 09:11 AM.


#31 Kunzite

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:21 AM

 


It's one thing for the OL to say 'no, you don't get to feat, here's a card', but it's another thing entirely to have the dice say it. The former is a crafty, sneaky, underhanded, devious play by a sentient being sabotaging the actions of another being; the latter is just rotten luck by funny symbols on some geometric doodad.

I can flavor the movement through Immobilization heroic feats as a 'burst of adrenaline, everything's on the line, let's fight through whatever's holding me back!" sort of thing. After all, these are heroic feats; acts that are spoken of in taverns all over Terrinoth. In that vein, what Kunzite is talking about from our last campaign, poor Grisban missed on his Heroic Feat so often the taverns were alight with laughter about the folly of "Grisban the Blind" and his heroically poor aim.

 

...Till he walked in the door with the head of the legendary dragon Gryvorn dragging behind him.

This right here says it all. Rolling dice is a stroke of luck, playing an OL card is not. I will admit there is some luck involved in the OL having to draw the card, but after that it's strategy, not pure luck. Also, while a hero being able to move 10 spaces while immobilized doesn't really make that much sense per se, let's not forget it is a Heroic Feat. Meaning that it is something deemed impossible or nearly impossible by common folk.

 

-Daggon

 

 

Maybe I need to clarify, because you sirs are correct. There is a feeling that comes with bad luck. There is a feeling that comes with the OL seemingly always nerfing a skill due to a card. Both are not an always, but both are just as annoying.


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"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

NotesFromTheOverlord.tumblr.com


#32 CaelanCross

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:09 AM

It's one thing for the OL to say 'no, you don't get to feat, here's a card', but it's another thing entirely to have the dice say it. The former is a crafty, sneaky, underhanded, devious play by a sentient being sabotaging the actions of another being; the latter is just rotten luck by funny symbols on some geometric doodad.

I can flavor the movement through Immobilization heroic feats as a 'burst of adrenaline, everything's on the line, let's fight through whatever's holding me back!" sort of thing. After all, these are heroic feats; acts that are spoken of in taverns all over Terrinoth. In that vein, what Kunzite is talking about from our last campaign, poor Grisban missed on his Heroic Feat so often the taverns were alight with laughter about the folly of "Grisban the Blind" and his heroically poor aim.

 

...Till he walked in the door with the head of the legendary dragon Gryvorn dragging behind him.

And by that same token, if feats are meant to be heroic a villain's schemes are meant to be nefarious, and an OL hatches is schemes through his cards; plus, none the cards I have ever read just say "no, no you don't get a feat" it's "if I have the appropriate card in my hand that I purchased with xp to counter the party's abilities: roll an attribute test or I stop you," so succeed or your strength test and your hero gets his burst of adrenaline, fail and you get what I like to call dramatic tension ;)  

 

All BS aside, flavour is all well and good but game balance and well thought out mechanics are what make a game playable or not.  Whenever you have a character with an unstoppable ability that can completely change the dynamic of a campaign all on it's own, any sense of game balance just goes right out the window; especially in a game where there are so many other balance issues that it just can't handle the extra strain.    


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#33 Cursain

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

And then they come out with cards like this with the Valyndra Lieutenant Pack.

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4340


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#34 Kunzite

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

And then they come out with cards like this with the Valyndra Lieutenant Pack.

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4340

 

Soon. very soon. OL everywhere will be happy to have their own character to buff. I am slowly getting more excited, but my skepticism stands.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#35 Robin

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 03:11 AM

All BS aside, flavour is all well and good but game balance and well thought out mechanics are what make a game playable or not.  Whenever you have a character with an unstoppable ability that can completely change the dynamic of a campaign all on it's own, any sense of game balance just goes right out the window; especially in a game where there are so many other balance issues that it just can't handle the extra strain.    

I wonder if FFG did anticipate some interrelated game mechanics' effects.

I even wonder if they could - the decisive "test bench" is the player community, after a game is published.

In the case of Silhouette, I would perhaps try to houserule her heroic feat, to make it slightly less powerfull.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




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