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Trading at character gen


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#1 Archmike

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:35 AM

Did a search and couldn't find an answer to this so....

 

Is there anything stopping you trading one of your starting weapons when getting your starting gear? I can't see anywhere where it says you can't it other than it would seem a bit silly if you could O.o



#2 DonKalypso

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

Page 308 of the core rulebook, there's a sidebar on trading. Apply the same concepts to trading in starting gear for your character creation acquisitions.

 

Traded in my heavy carapace armour and got a best quality powered armour for my human renegade. Granted I was also using my Wealth pride's +20 to that as well, so yeah.



#3 BrotharTearer

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

In the end it's just an optional rule, and considering how things are automatic on character creation, it's not allowed by default. But often a GM will allow it (you might need to ask). Some GMs will allow you to trade items by those rules, while others might allow you to trade starting items for another item of the the same rarity, or both.



#4 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:57 PM

It doesn't work mechanically. For instance, the Renegade's Best-craftsmanship lasgun has a Scarce availability, while the alternate Common-craftsmanship boltgun is a Very Rare availability. They're not equivalent. There would be no point in ever getting the lasgun, because you could take the boltgun and then exchange it for a better lasgun (with a sight, say).

 

Trading at character creation is imbalanced for the same reason.



#5 BrotharTearer

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:32 PM

It doesn't work mechanically. For instance, the Renegade's Best-craftsmanship lasgun has a Scarce availability, while the alternate Common-craftsmanship boltgun is a Very Rare availability. They're not equivalent. There would be no point in ever getting the lasgun, because you could take the boltgun and then exchange it for a better lasgun (with a sight, say).

 

Trading at character creation is imbalanced for the same reason.

 

If you intend to trade away the weapon it's only imbalanced if you pick the less rare item to trade away. Then it's your own fault. You've got the same opportunity as any other player. And the GM can always overrule some instances of bonus juggling if it's in bad taste (I've seen people get Ancient Warrior to get legion items cheaper and then trading them away, netting a +10 net profit).



#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:49 PM

The fact that you have multiple strategies of trading with items of different values is what makes it unbalanced (unbalanced isn't really the right word). If you could trade there would be no point in the Renegade having a Best-craftsmanship lasgun as an option, because he could get the boltgun instead, trade it, and get a Best-craftsmanship lasgun + a sight + a melee attachment. Making the lasgun option pointless to begin with.

 

If trading had been intended as an option, there would not be a set of starting items listed period, but rather "one Basic weapon with -20 Availability" etc.

 

You can house rule it of course, but it's not a RAI option.



#7 BrotharTearer

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 04:36 AM

The fact that you have multiple strategies of trading with items of different values is what makes it unbalanced (unbalanced isn't really the right word). If you could trade there would be no point in the Renegade having a Best-craftsmanship lasgun as an option, because he could get the boltgun instead, trade it, and get a Best-craftsmanship lasgun + a sight + a melee attachment. Making the lasgun option pointless to begin with.

 

And that would be an instance of the "bonus juggling" I refered to above.

 

 

You can house rule it of course, but it's not a RAI option.

 

 

No one has claimed it is.



#8 Archmike

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:05 AM

I've let a khorne beserker trade in his bolt pistol he got from being a space marine to improve his chainaxes to good and mono. I thought that made a lot of sense.



#9 Fgdsfg

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:09 AM

I've yet to meet a GM that wouldn't allow a player to exchange certain bits of starting equipment as long as it made sense.

There are no rules for it, though, which is understandable. Often, even gear of the same Availability is not comparable to eachother, after all, and just because something is rarer than something else doesn't mean that it's automatically better.

So it's not clear-cut.

But yeah. Any GM that doesn't allow you to switch things that "makes sense" or is comparable to eachother is a git.

Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#10 Athanatosz

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:57 AM

If a player need other gears which is not in the class or race description they always got  x bonus gears for the start ( x= infamy bonus which is usually 2x-10 worth of rarity equipment) . So with class and race gears pluss the (usually) 2 extra equipment it is should be enough for a start. Not to mention the  allowable commons to..

(page 82-83 in core rulebook)

 

Also is there any avability rule for armor subsytems? (power armor subs)


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#11 Archmike

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:51 AM

If a player need other gears which is not in the class or race description they always got  x bonus gears for the start ( x= infamy bonus which is usually 2x-10 worth of rarity equipment) . So with class and race gears pluss the (usually) 2 extra equipment it is should be enough for a start. Not to mention the  allowable commons to..

(page 82-83 in core rulebook)

 

Also is there any avability rule for armor subsytems? (power armor subs)

 

Wow, gotta love the hard line orthodoxy O.o

 

Tbh having given it a lot of thought it makes 0 sense that a 10,000 year old space marine has NEVER traded anything ever to improve the gear he has. Why does he only have the same basic gear as he started with. In 10k years he never once thought to trade in his combat knife to get an upgrade on his other gear? I find that hard to justify to myself.



#12 Athanatosz

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:31 AM

Well i used to story-tell to munckins....   ;)

 

 

Of course if back-story, pretty pleases and common sense make it valid why not? but if we go too far in this path we could easily end up in a twin-linked-twin-linked Auto-cannon ( aka a "quad-cannonTM" ) braced in the back of a minion..

 

I'm sadly not played much but story-tell more....

 

and I know it feel way better to wring out your shiny new power sword from the cold death hand of your opponent who you just stubbed in the belly like 9 times with your trusty-rusty CB Knife....  Considering that your basic gears is roughly equal or worse then your regular opponents ( like CSM to SM or TL&TD to throne agents) it can happen like your 1st or 2nd gaming session... so starting gear is not a big deal more likely in weapons cases....


Edited by Athanatosz, 09 September 2013 - 11:32 AM.

 "I am determined to prove a villain

    And hate the idle pleasures of these days."

 

KING RICHARD III


#13 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

I thought that there were no CSMs who were 10,000 years old, but centuries at most. They're around 10,000 years later because of time distortion in the warp.

 

Anyway I think 99% of CSMs are probably post-heresy recruits.



#14 Fgdsfg

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:20 PM

I thought that there were no CSMs who were 10,000 years old, but centuries at most. They're around 10,000 years later because of time distortion in the warp.

 

Anyway I think 99% of CSMs are probably post-heresy recruits.

Yeah, there's no way that any of the CSM you can play in Black Crusade is 10,000 years old or more. At best, I would say a century.

I mean, the fact that humans and CSM remotely even compare is pushing it, but if you want to have me believe that a veteran from the Horus Heresy would even exist on the same scale, that's just.. no.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#15 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:24 PM

 

I thought that there were no CSMs who were 10,000 years old, but centuries at most. They're around 10,000 years later because of time distortion in the warp.

 

Anyway I think 99% of CSMs are probably post-heresy recruits.

Yeah, there's no way that any of the CSM you can play in Black Crusade is 10,000 years old or more. At best, I would say a century.

I mean, the fact that humans and CSM remotely even compare is pushing it, but if you want to have me believe that a veteran from the Horus Heresy would even exist on the same scale, that's just.. no.

 

 

I would accept an HH veteran who had experienced time dilation, and for whom the heresy was a few years ago.



#16 BrotharTearer

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:51 PM

The thing with swapping out starting equipment that doesn't make sense is just because it doesn't make sense. Why would my khornate chosen (berserker) be carrying around a bolter and bolt pistol when he uses neither, just because it's apart of his starting loadout? It makes MUCH more sense to swap them out for something else ("along the way") that he'd reasonably carry.

 

That's the main reason GMs use that particular houserule.

 

The houserule is even more valid when starting characters with additional XP.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 09 September 2013 - 10:52 PM.





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