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#1 Silverhelm

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 03:22 PM

My group and I tried this and we thought it was fun...

Instead of the KO rules we changed it to this. (Not really for epic play). And just intended for fun!

#1 KO heroes may not get up on there own.

#2 hero buddies can revive or heal with Prayer of Healing ect.

#3 OL can try to keep heroes from healing or reviving if possible.

#4 If heroes fail to get there hero buddy up by the time encounter ends or quest ends hero dies!

#5 In town the dead hero may get a new hero but gear on last hero is lost!

We did this last weekend and really enjoyed it. Just thought I'd share that.

#2 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:09 PM

That seems like a hard mode. It REALLY encourages the OL to kill a hero. You MUST tell us how the campaign runs.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#3 Silverhelm

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

Yes but it helps entertain old D&D players with (they can die at anytime feel)they mainly wanted the possibility of real death anytime like D&D. I played D&D few times myself and I do like how it was hard to grow past level 1. Even a trap could end your career.

Thing I like about this game is the simplicity. The OL doesn't need to make a story, it's already there ect. But we all agree we miss the die anytime aspect. So we are seeing what it would be like to add it to Descent. And so far it really isn't that bad if heroes work as a team ect.

Why not play D&D or Pathfinder? Well we like this better we just miss aspects of D&D.
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#4 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

I like it. Maybe we will incorporate this after my heroes feel they need a new challenge. We are still new at this (been playing for about a year here shortly) so things are still challenging.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

NotesFromTheOverlord.tumblr.com


#5 Robin

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:00 AM

If one likes dead heroes, Dungeon Quest is the way to go.  :P

Anyway, one is free to change the mechanics and settings of Descent 2.

I still haven't seen someone introducing X-Wing fighters or lovecraftian investigators into the system, but why not?

Contrary to many other games, it seems that a lot of people don't like D2 as it is and that they want to make it like other games they like.

 

The main problem, with adaptations, is about the balance between what one wins (some psychological comfort, more 'dungeon crawling feel', etc.) and what one looses (the initial tactical challenge, the interactions of the original game mechanic).

Of course, if fun is at the end of the road, the most important goal has been reached. :)


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#6 Silverhelm

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:31 AM

Balance wise so far not much has changed. But it really helps encourage the importants of working together or there will be consequences. True it's already there but who wants to loose there loot over what they can loose in a quest. Balance wise, well this game as any other has its unknown and some known balance problems. This doesn't really seem to take away from that.

Games like this need consequence or nobody would play it. If you couldn't die you wouldn't play, if you couldn't loose then you wouldn't play. All we are adding is more of the same end game consequence. And in a fair way really. You can still revive your hero partner. Just makes heroes take that KO a little more seriously. Do I want to risk loot? Do I want a new hero? If no I'm going to make sure me and my partners stay alive.

In the beginning of a quest if you loose a hero not really big deal but towards end it can be. As far a balance is concerned well that's kind of the point to offset it. This is a dungeon delve it should be risky. In my opinion I would lean the balance towards the OL's favor anyway it's his dungeons after all. Those greedy heroes need to be punished for trespassing! Lol
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#7 Silverhelm

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:37 AM

Try this if your heroes are looking for a little more hard times...not for everybody of course.

#8 griton

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:22 AM

#5 In town the dead hero may get a new hero but gear on last hero is lost!

 

When they get a new hero, do they have to keep the same class to transfer skills? If not, what about XP? Is any lost? Are they forced to distribute their XP in a similar fashion? (Same distribution of XP costs as the original had, etc.)  

 

This is a dungeon delve it should be risky. In my opinion I would lean the balance towards the OL's favor anyway it's his dungeons after all. Those greedy heroes need to be punished for trespassing! Lol

 

You may want to re-read the flavor text on a lot of (especially Act I) quests. In A LOT of cases, the heroes are trying to rescue some place that the Overlord has invaded (farms, castles, homes, cathedrals, etc.)

 

For those that may want a slightly less punishing version, you could remove the "Any knocked out heroes may perform a stand up action for free" entry between encounters, starting the next one with KO'd heroes and only apply the death penalty at the end of the quest.


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#9 Kunzite

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:24 AM

I already know of two quests in which my heroes would have lost one, if not two, of their heroes. I love the idea of no heroes left behind feel. I would like to see more of that.

 

But...

 

Here is a question for balance though. Our last quest, I, the OL, KOed Aeon (scout) before my turn ended. That character then slid to the bottom of the map (See "Let the Truth be Buried" to understand why this happened). He decided not to stand up on his turn because it would do nothing for the team and I could just punch him in the face again, getting satisfaction from him looting my store houses >O!. You see, I will win on my turn if they cannot stop Splig, but Fatigue was too high for most and Brigg (mage) and Bread (Warrior) where limping as it is. No one could get to the fallen hero at the bottom of the map unless they choose to fall. ALL of the other heroes where hurting enough that the fall would kill them.

 

In this case, could there be a rule that if the quest would end with a hero KOed but is within three spaces of another hero, they could live maybe at the experience of an EXP? Kind of like classic JRPGs. If you are on the ground by the end of the battle, you forfeit the exp.

 

In thinking of balance, I agree with Silverhelm. It's the OL's turf these greedy heroes are tramping on. If the players want a hard mode, it SHOULD be the OL to get the advantage. In the same way, the OL would have to try to make the game more fun by, I don't know, changing up OL cards so not to have cheaty Warlord class and having a wide verity of beasts (so we don't see Shadow Dragons and Potato monsters (chaos beasts) every encounter).

 

But, as in my example above, this is very late in our campaign. I think my hero that fell would have rage quit. All his pretty toys would be lost AND he has to start over. I, as their evil OL, would have been more proactive about KOing another hero, in which I could have done, before I won the game. Cheep shot... Overlord x.x. Maybe if the hero has to choose another hero, maybe that hero has the same amount of EXP?


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

NotesFromTheOverlord.tumblr.com


#10 Silverhelm

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:46 AM

@griton yes some quests you may need to play around with it to make it right. XP is up to the people playing of course. I have not scored a permanent kill yet (it really isn't that easy when there's a stand by hero nearby). Since heroes share money I'm pretty sure will say XP gone or 1/2 lost. They may pick any hero including the dead archetype and class he's just getting a restart.

Also the topic is Risk Mechanic so yup if you do this your accepting the fine print and I am not held accountable for hero deaths. My lawyers are standing by....I'm also not responsible for limb lost or amputations!

Also I put dungeon delve because that's what the box calls it "a dungeon delving adventure".
Another reason why we are doing this is incase we do decide to play extra side quests we may add this to offset the amount of extra XP and gold heroes get. In away playing a mega campaign.

But yeah at the end of a quest may be better for some quests.

In a games like this a player who enjoys playing as heroes likes Hope, and Despair.
OL enjoys Muhahahah! In are games the heroes get plenty of Hope they just want more Despair.

Edited by Silverhelm, 04 September 2013 - 01:12 PM.


#11 Silverhelm

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:59 AM

I already know of two quests in which my heroes would have lost one, if not two, of their heroes. I love the idea of no heroes left behind feel. I would like to see more of that.

But...

Here is a question for balance though. Our last quest, I, the OL, KOed Aeon (scout) before my turn ended. That character then slid to the bottom of the map (See "Let the Truth be Buried" to understand why this happened). He decided not to stand up on his turn because it would do nothing for the team and I could just punch him in the face again, getting satisfaction from him looting my store houses >O!. You see, I will win on my turn if they cannot stop Splig, but Fatigue was too high for most and Brigg (mage) and Bread (Warrior) where limping as it is. No one could get to the fallen hero at the bottom of the map unless they choose to fall. ALL of the other heroes where hurting enough that the fall would kill them.



In this case, could there be a rule that if the quest would end with a hero KOed but is within three spaces of another hero, they could live maybe at the experience of an EXP? Kind of like classic JRPGs. If you are on the ground by the end of the battle, you forfeit the exp.

In thinking of balance, I agree with Silverhelm. It's the OL's turf these greedy heroes are tramping on. If the players want a hard mode, it SHOULD be the OL to get the advantage. In the same way, the OL would have to try to make the game more fun by, I don't know, changing up OL cards so not to have cheaty Warlord class and having a wide verity of beasts (so we don't see Shadow Dragons and Potato monsters (chaos beasts) every encounter).

But, as in my example above, this is very late in our campaign. I think my hero that fell would have rage quit. All his pretty toys would be lost AND he has to start over. I, as their evil OL, would have been more proactive about KOing another hero, in which I could have done, before I won the game. Cheep shot... Overlord x.x. Maybe if the hero has to choose another hero, maybe that hero has the same amount of EXP?

There will be some cases where you just simply can't do this and might as well play as is until you can. We had a campaign going and went ahead and started over to see how this would feel. And so far we like.

Also we don't have CK and if we did I don't thank we would use it for this. We would keep it strictly SE just gives OL little less options on the table and acts as a "ok you can die now but ill use my SE only". There is a lot of tweaks,and variations you can add/or substract of course to fit your group(s). All you got to do is agree with it and give it a go.

Edited by Silverhelm, 04 September 2013 - 12:51 PM.





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