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"Swarm" monster skill the new black?


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#1 Cursain

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

If you visit Board Game Geek, they have pictures of many of the cards in the Trollfens expansion.

 

http://boardgamegeek...at-gencon-today

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4183

 

Harpy's have the Swarm ability, and their master has an action that allows you to move all minion monsters from his group, 2 spaces.

 

Throw in some kobalds and you have a big mess for the heroes.  Couple with the fact minion harpys come with a green + blue dice, the ability to trigger swarm is like 80+% for them.  We're talking some major hero beat-down.

I can't wait for Trollfens + new lieutenants. 

 

-Cursain

 


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#2 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:28 AM

Thanks for sharing. I really like the new treasure room cards. We have an issue right now in our campaign where I feel the treasure rooms are too easy for the heroes to get extra stuff for little penalty aside from actions (and sometimes it's one hero for one turn. Two at the most. This really will help the OL least see the treasure room as a help even if they are getting more things. (our last quest the heroes picked up 400~500 gold worth of shop items they needed. I won that quest, but at what cost? ~.~...). I still don't like the fact that monsters can't go into the treasure rooms. We have also had the case of heroes hiding out in there and STILL being about to use the rewards offered for the treasure room after all monsters and treasure is completed. Makes it very hard for the OL to complete their task (if KOing is game)or slow down money gain when they can't do anything about it!

 

Travel looks fun. I even approve of the "make the OL discard their hand to draw another one" card. Very nice.

 

More green dice things!! I am glad to see more of that. I really feared it would be exclusive to the last expansion. I really like the green dice.


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#3 Cursain

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

Thanks for sharing. I really like the new treasure room cards. We have an issue right now in our campaign where I feel the treasure rooms are too easy for the heroes to get extra stuff for little penalty aside from actions (and sometimes it's one hero for one turn. Two at the most. This really will help the OL least see the treasure room as a help even if they are getting more things. (our last quest the heroes picked up 400~500 gold worth of shop items they needed. I won that quest, but at what cost? ~.~...). I still don't like the fact that monsters can't go into the treasure rooms. We have also had the case of heroes hiding out in there and STILL being about to use the rewards offered for the treasure room after all monsters and treasure is completed. Makes it very hard for the OL to complete their task (if KOing is game)or slow down money gain when they can't do anything about it!

 

Travel looks fun. I even approve of the "make the OL discard their hand to draw another one" card. Very nice.

 

More green dice things!! I am glad to see more of that. I really feared it would be exclusive to the last expansion. I really like the green dice.

 

I agree Kunzite.  I'm the type of OL that likes to play everything Fantasy Flight Games can introduce to Descent, regardless if it's balancing or not.  I like lots of options, it really keeps things interesting.  The group of guys I play with can only get in one/two days a month to play.  I'm the only person that owns any of the game so the more tangents we can introduce the more fun it'll be.

 

The treasure room has been a bit too much lately, but I don't want to throw it out now that it's already been played with.  I'm so looking forward to the new content.

 

Kobalds and Harpys, if surging, can easily get +5-7 damage + dice.  It's an equaling we'll need as OL's with all the loot these heroes are scrounging up.

 

-Cursain


Edited by Cursain, 03 September 2013 - 12:03 PM.

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#4 Silverhelm

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

Wonder what some will do if they have Trollfens and not LoR. No LoR=no green dice! Don't think you can buy the dice separate.

Edited by Silverhelm, 03 September 2013 - 12:00 PM.

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#5 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

The treasure room has been a bit too much lately, but I don't want to throw it out now that it's already been played with.  I'm so looking forward to the new content.

 

Agreed! I like the idea of the treasure room allot! (particularly when they kill the mimic to find a trap door. What?! How do that work?! >D!) So I am glad they seem to balance it out a little more by making the treasure they could get harder to obtain.

 

 

Wonder what some will do if they have Trollfens and not LoR. No LoR=no green dice! Don't think you can buy the dice separate.

 

I hope they have at least one green dice in the set. We are seeing a need for one more green dice anyhow. Ariad is currently rolling blue, green, green, green!


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#6 centralx

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

 I still don't like the fact that monsters can't go into the treasure rooms. We have also had the case of heroes hiding out in there and STILL being about to use the rewards offered for the treasure room after all monsters and treasure is completed. 

 

Could you clarify what you mean by them hiding out? According to book on pg.5 once the reward has resolved then they get kicked out of the room automatically. Secret rooms haven't been an issue in my group. So far they have only found one. Want to make sure I am prepared for any of those pesky hero antics. 



#7 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:58 PM

Bear in mind, that score we did against Kunzite was not typical and should not be treated as such.

We found a treasure chest -- only one of several cards in the deck -- and got lucky with dice rolling in the secret passage and Shop Item Deck draw from there. On top of that, some lucky dice rolling for the Unknown Treasures rumor helped us make an educated guess on the remaining face down cards, and we walked away with a discounted Dragontooth Hammer and a regular price Tival Crystal. There was no actual skill involved, just a lot of dumb luck that left us with a payoff we probably couldn't replicate if we tried.

Getting back on track, I suppose swarming harpies and kobolds wouldn't take much actual "skill" either; Mob the hero who is the biggest threat -- even easier due to Fly and the boss Harpy's Flock skill -- and swing. One surge gives a maximum bonus of +8 damage, for ONE attack. Repeat with each adjacent monster until the hero dies. It's not guaranteed, but it only has to trigger twice out of many separate attacks (not counting OL cards) to deal lethal damage to most heroes. While I suppose it's counter-balanced by the fact that the monsters are now bunched up, a dead hero is a dead hero; one that can't effectively stand up until the pack is thinned anyway.

The only way around that is to kill an appreciable number of them before they have a chance to get that swarm effect going, but any OL worth their salt -- Like our crafty Kunzite -- isn't going to start with all her monsters bunched up if the heroes have Blast or have ways of attacking multiple times a turn.



#8 Cursain

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:11 PM

Bear in mind, that score we did against Kunzite was not typical and should not be treated as such.

We found a treasure chest -- only one of several cards in the deck -- and got lucky with dice rolling in the secret passage and Shop Item Deck draw from there. On top of that, some lucky dice rolling for the Unknown Treasures rumor helped us make an educated guess on the remaining face down cards, and we walked away with a discounted Dragontooth Hammer and a regular price Tival Crystal. There was no actual skill involved, just a lot of dumb luck that left us with a payoff we probably couldn't replicate if we tried.

Getting back on track, I suppose swarming harpies and kobolds wouldn't take much actual "skill" either; Mob the hero who is the biggest threat -- even easier due to Fly and the boss Harpy's Flock skill -- and swing. One surge gives a maximum bonus of +8 damage, for ONE attack. Repeat with each adjacent monster until the hero dies. It's not guaranteed, but it only has to trigger twice out of many separate attacks (not counting OL cards) to deal lethal damage to most heroes. While I suppose it's counter-balanced by the fact that the monsters are now bunched up, a dead hero is a dead hero; one that can't effectively stand up until the pack is thinned anyway.

The only way around that is to kill an appreciable number of them before they have a chance to get that swarm effect going, but any OL worth their salt -- Like our crafty Kunzite -- isn't going to start with all her monsters bunched up if the heroes have Blast or have ways of attacking multiple times a turn.

 

+1 except I believe the most bonus is +7 since swarm says "each other adjacent monster" to the hero.  Nine squares in a box, hero in the middle, and the attacker = +7 if totally surrounded. 

 

The Basic II card Overwhelm makes me laugh at all this!

 

Cursain


Edited by Cursain, 03 September 2013 - 02:23 PM.


#9 Ringskipper

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:15 PM

To the OT: Harpies are female. :P

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Trollfens comes with a green die.


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#10 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:23 PM


+1 except I believe the most bonus is +7 since swarm says "each other adjacent monster" to the hero.  Nine squares in a box, hero in the middle, and the attacker = +7 if totally surrounded. 

 

The Basic II card Overwhelm makes me laugh at all this!

 

Wade

 


Okay, okay. So instead of REALLY DEAD they're just PRETTY DEAD. Potato, potahto.

I didn't even bring OL cards into this; Dirty Fighting, Overwhelm and Blood Rage will only make the problem worse, with Bloodlust rubbing salt on the wounds afterward.



#11 Cursain

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:39 PM

Yea, not too sure hereos will like getting schooled by that 2 life kobold which hits him/her for over ten damage with a bloodlust :)



#12 Silverhelm

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:44 PM

If you goto coolstuffinc.com and type Trollfens it shows the entire contents of box. I don't see a die listed in there. But who knows maybe the "and more" means green dice.

Edited by Silverhelm, 03 September 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#13 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:06 PM

 

Bear in mind, that score we did against Kunzite was not typical and should not be treated as such.

We found a treasure chest -- only one of several cards in the deck -- and got lucky with dice rolling in the secret passage and Shop Item Deck draw from there. On top of that, some lucky dice rolling for the Unknown Treasures rumor helped us make an educated guess on the remaining face down cards, and we walked away with a discounted Dragontooth Hammer and a regular price Tival Crystal. There was no actual skill involved, just a lot of dumb luck that left us with a payoff we probably couldn't replicate if we tried.

Getting back on track, I suppose swarming harpies and kobolds wouldn't take much actual "skill" either; Mob the hero who is the biggest threat -- even easier due to Fly and the boss Harpy's Flock skill -- and swing. One surge gives a maximum bonus of +8 damage, for ONE attack. Repeat with each adjacent monster until the hero dies. It's not guaranteed, but it only has to trigger twice out of many separate attacks (not counting OL cards) to deal lethal damage to most heroes. While I suppose it's counter-balanced by the fact that the monsters are now bunched up, a dead hero is a dead hero; one that can't effectively stand up until the pack is thinned anyway.

The only way around that is to kill an appreciable number of them before they have a chance to get that swarm effect going, but any OL worth their salt -- Like our crafty Kunzite -- isn't going to start with all her monsters bunched up if the heroes have Blast or have ways of attacking multiple times a turn.

 

+1 except I believe the most bonus is +7 since swarm says "each other adjacent monster" to the hero.  Nine squares in a box, hero in the middle, and the attacker = +7 if totally surrounded. 

 

The Basic II card Overwhelm makes me laugh at all this!

 

Wade

 

 

Putting all your monsters in one place is high risk, high reward. Bread is correct. Leaving all your monsters in a nice package for the heroes is dangerous, but if the hero falls and the OL gets a reward beyond one OL card (Bloodlust is my buddy) this it's VERY worth it.

 

Also, that pesky rule that all of one monster group has to be activated before another group can mean that one group is stuck in harms way before the OL can move them. That means all of that group can be lost. The Kobolds aren't an issue. There are NINE to start off with. 12 can be on the map at once if the heroes are smarties and kill the three masters first. I would be concerned about the harpies making it out alive after the assault. But if your goal is to take down hero problem number one, then you got yourself a good piece to work with. If the hero that is taken down is blocked off by the group also means trouble. The group will have to waste actions to free their fallen friend or forfeit bringing them back. This has happened. 

 

As for the treasure room being an isolated incident, it is true. My heroes have been drawing the search cards pretty well, and picking when to go into a treasure room very carefully.  I fight no fools for heroes.

 

 

BUT! I would like to know what others think of the new OL class, injector! It looks interesting... Another dark charm but better as a level three. <3 I like it! It seems VERY powerful. Land a hit on a buddy (or have them hit themselves) and then separate them from the group seems really dirty! Also, there are cards that sit out for the whole quest. Thinning out the deck while keeping the pressure on the heroes seems really good. <3


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#14 Cursain

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:23 PM

 

 

Bear in mind, that score we did against Kunzite was not typical and should not be treated as such.

We found a treasure chest -- only one of several cards in the deck -- and got lucky with dice rolling in the secret passage and Shop Item Deck draw from there. On top of that, some lucky dice rolling for the Unknown Treasures rumor helped us make an educated guess on the remaining face down cards, and we walked away with a discounted Dragontooth Hammer and a regular price Tival Crystal. There was no actual skill involved, just a lot of dumb luck that left us with a payoff we probably couldn't replicate if we tried.

Getting back on track, I suppose swarming harpies and kobolds wouldn't take much actual "skill" either; Mob the hero who is the biggest threat -- even easier due to Fly and the boss Harpy's Flock skill -- and swing. One surge gives a maximum bonus of +8 damage, for ONE attack. Repeat with each adjacent monster until the hero dies. It's not guaranteed, but it only has to trigger twice out of many separate attacks (not counting OL cards) to deal lethal damage to most heroes. While I suppose it's counter-balanced by the fact that the monsters are now bunched up, a dead hero is a dead hero; one that can't effectively stand up until the pack is thinned anyway.

The only way around that is to kill an appreciable number of them before they have a chance to get that swarm effect going, but any OL worth their salt -- Like our crafty Kunzite -- isn't going to start with all her monsters bunched up if the heroes have Blast or have ways of attacking multiple times a turn.

 

+1 except I believe the most bonus is +7 since swarm says "each other adjacent monster" to the hero.  Nine squares in a box, hero in the middle, and the attacker = +7 if totally surrounded. 

 

The Basic II card Overwhelm makes me laugh at all this!

 

Wade

 

 

Putting all your monsters in one place is high risk, high reward. Bread is correct. Leaving all your monsters in a nice package for the heroes is dangerous, but if the hero falls and the OL gets a reward beyond one OL card (Bloodlust is my buddy) this it's VERY worth it.

 

Also, that pesky rule that all of one monster group has to be activated before another group can mean that one group is stuck in harms way before the OL can move them. That means all of that group can be lost. The Kobolds aren't an issue. There are NINE to start off with. 12 can be on the map at once if the heroes are smarties and kill the three masters first. I would be concerned about the harpies making it out alive after the assault. But if your goal is to take down hero problem number one, then you got yourself a good piece to work with. If the hero that is taken down is blocked off by the group also means trouble. The group will have to waste actions to free their fallen friend or forfeit bringing them back. This has happened. 

 

As for the treasure room being an isolated incident, it is true. My heroes have been drawing the search cards pretty well, and picking when to go into a treasure room very carefully.  I fight no fools for heroes.

 

 

BUT! I would like to know what others think of the new OL class, injector! It looks interesting... Another dark charm but better as a level three. <3 I like it! It seems VERY powerful. Land a hit on a buddy (or have them hit themselves) and then separate them from the group seems really dirty! Also, there are cards that sit out for the whole quest. Thinning out the deck while keeping the pressure on the heroes seems really good. <3

 

 

Don't forget about sorcerers.  You can always use their summon abilities to move the harpy/kobald minions around to safety, or into attack range without activating the group.

 

Also, having some beastmen around for the master's command ability could be very advantageous for re-rolling misses and/or non-surging rolls :lol:

 

Oh this is so evil :)

 

-Cursain


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#15 Kunzite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:53 PM

Oh this is so evil :)

 

-Cursain

 

 

It's true. Oh but so good. >D! This is for the more aggressive OL as well, in which I am not. I would rather my heroes fear moving, searching or over all make progress then to out right kill them all of the time. For me, that is more fun then combat. Maybe that is why I am looking into the new OL class cards.


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#16 Steve-O

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 06:27 AM

If you goto coolstuffinc.com and type Trollfens it shows the entire contents of box. I don't see a die listed in there. But who knows maybe the "and more" means green dice.

 

If something in Trollfens requires a green die and the box doesn't provide at least one green die, well, that would be a first for FFG.  Traditionally, each expansion comes with everything it needs to be used in conjunction with the core box.  They don't rely on other expansion material.



#17 Robin

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:56 AM

 

If you goto coolstuffinc.com and type Trollfens it shows the entire contents of box. I don't see a die listed in there. But who knows maybe the "and more" means green dice.

 

If something in Trollfens requires a green die and the box doesn't provide at least one green die, well, that would be a first for FFG.  Traditionally, each expansion comes with everything it needs to be used in conjunction with the core box.  They don't rely on other expansion material.

 

Let's wait.

In the description I read, they say "much more" at the end of the list. That would include a green die, IMO.

 

I am quite sure that, after some expansions, there will be players complaining about having too many green dice.  :P  :lol:


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
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#18 centralx

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:59 AM

You can never have enough dice for this game. I wish my players would take the initiative to buy their own dice packs. 



#19 Kunzite

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:53 AM

 

 

If you goto coolstuffinc.com and type Trollfens it shows the entire contents of box. I don't see a die listed in there. But who knows maybe the "and more" means green dice.

 

If something in Trollfens requires a green die and the box doesn't provide at least one green die, well, that would be a first for FFG.  Traditionally, each expansion comes with everything it needs to be used in conjunction with the core box.  They don't rely on other expansion material.

 

Let's wait.

In the description I read, they say "much more" at the end of the list. That would include a green die, IMO.

 

I am quite sure that, after some expansions, there will be players complaining about having too many green dice.  :P  :lol:

 

 

Is Ariad swinging in for blue, green, green, green too many >D We need the extra green dice.

 

We are going to have to get another set of dice anyhow. If Endless Night is played, Adiad starts with black, black, gray, gray defense dice. If she is Queen Ariad and someone with Valyndra's bane... The way we have it now, the hero needs three yellow. I am glad they came out with more dice. It's better to role them all at once. The next box needs an additional green.


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#20 Steve-O

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

Don't forget about sorcerers.  You can always use their summon abilities to move the harpy/kobald minions around to safety, or into attack range without activating the group.

 

Also, having some beastmen around for the master's command ability could be very advantageous for re-rolling misses and/or non-surging rolls :lol:

 

Oh this is so evil :)

 

-Cursain

 

Sounds awesome on paper, but remember that three of these monster groups are from the CK, which means you need open groups to get them on the table.  No official 2E quests will include kobolds, sorcerers or beastmen as fixed groups.  And only the ones in Trollfens will have a chance to include harpies as a fixed group.  I haven't seen Trollfens quests yet, but 3 open groups is uncommon, to say the least.

 

Also, as awsome as Swarm can be (and I remember it being awesome in 1E) it alsow required the OL to clump his monsters together.  If the heroes have any kind of AoE, this means you'll only get one or two really good shots off, and then you'll be spending the rest of the encounter reinforcing monsters to rebuild your numbers.

 

It's a good combo, I'm not denying that.  But I don't think it will be broken in practice.


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