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Question on placing multi-space monsters in scenario start


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#1 Cursain

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:28 AM

So each quest says certain monster groups start in such and such tile.  What about monsters that take up 4 to 6 spaces?  Can I place two spaces of the moster in the required starting room, and then the other 2 to 4 space in the adjacent hallway tile leading or leaving the room?

 

-Cursain



#2 centralx

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:33 AM

Can you be a little more specific about the quest and monster group you are picking? I haven't encountered this problem yet and what to try and understand where you are coming from. My gut would say though that what ever has to start in there, has to start in there. Like I said I haven't had this as an issue yet in my sessions. 



#3 Kunzite

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:09 AM

I have never encountered that issue, those I have come close once with my barghest and kobolds (two different times). FFG is normally really good about keeping these things from happening.

 

But if it does happen, then the OL must place the monster in the closest available space. If it's a hallway, then that is what happens.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#4 Cursain

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:30 AM

So here's a good example from Cardinal's Plight:

 

https://www.dropbox....al's Plight.png

 

Can I "Choose" to place part of my shadow dragon in the Ruins since "technically" it is starting in there? 

 

Wade

 

 

 



#5 Robin

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:29 AM

You may not have a monster "spill" out of a given setup location if you have the possibility not to.

IOW you must respect the setup instructions.

Typically in Cardinal's Plight, Shadow Dragons are not the best monsters one can choose, because they cannot block the heroes' movement out of the ruins on the first turn.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#6 modernman55

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:20 AM

I have never encountered that issue, those I have come close once with my barghest and kobolds (two different times). FFG is normally really good about keeping these things from happening.

 

But if it does happen, then the OL must place the monster in the closest available space. If it's a hallway, then that is what happens.

 

 

Agreed. If the tile you have to reinforce or summon a figure on is only 4 spaces and you are playing with a monster that takes up 6 spaces. Also I think if you already have a 4 space monster occupying all the spaces the rules say closest available space, so you can place the new monster adjacent to the monster already taking up the space.



#7 Bagdad

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:40 AM

I think what he mean is that; If you spawn a large monster on a certain tile, can you spawn it on the border of the tile and then "expand" it outside of the tile area.

 

Same question with the entrance tile. If you have a 4 space monster, does it have to be entirely on the tile or it can expand outside the tile (leaving 2 empty space) ?



#8 Cursain

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:14 AM

I'm trying to think of ways to take advantage of the fact Overlord usually goes second, and I'm also strictly talking about Setup, not reinforcements.  Cardinal's Plight is a good example.

 

In the Quest Guide, on pg. 2 is states in the 3rd paragraph under Setup:

 

Monster figures may be placed anywhere on the tile or tiles indicated in the setup instructions, provided that those spaces are empty.  If there is not enough room on the map tile for all the monsters in the group to be placed, excess monsters may be placed in the closest available empty spaces.

 

It doesn't mention anywhere that the OL cannot cannot spill into other tiles.  If this is against the spirit of the game to some, I understand, but I'm against players that are very cunning/wiley and they think of the craziest things sometimes.

-Cursain



#9 asmeus

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:22 PM

It doesn't mention anywhere

-Cursain

This right here.

 

Rules often don't say everything you can't do, but they do say what you can do.

You CAN put them in mentioned tile. And that's what you should do.


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#10 Kunzite

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:03 PM

 

It doesn't mention anywhere

-Cursain

This right here.

 

Rules often don't say everything you can't do, but they do say what you can do.

You CAN put them in mentioned tile. And that's what you should do.

 

 

And because of this, unless there is NO other way you can come up with a way to place your open group, then that monster needs to be on the tiles you are given.


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

NotesFromTheOverlord.tumblr.com


#11 Steve-O

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:25 PM

Monster figures may be placed anywhere on the tile or tiles indicated in the setup instructions, provided that those spaces are empty.  If there is not enough room on the map tile for all the monsters in the group to be placed, excess monsters may be placed in the closest available empty spaces.

 

It doesn't mention anywhere that the OL cannot cannot spill into other tiles.

 

For my money, the underlined parts make it very clear that the figure must be placed on the tile.  Unless there's not enough room on the tile, in which case, use the closest empty spaces.  That includes "spilling over" the edge of the tile.



#12 modernman55

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:58 AM

Humm, well then what we are looking at here is a debate if monster placement on the map follows the same rules as monster movement on the map. Where the OL selects the square he/she desires the monster to be (a square that is on the edge of the tile), and then using the expanding nature of large monster figures to "spill" on to the neighboring tiles of the one the monster is reinforced or starts on. 

 

 

Monster figures may be placed anywhere on the tile or tiles indicated in the setup instructions, provided that those spaces are empty.  If there is not enough room on the map tile for all the monsters in the group to be placed, excess monsters may be placed in the closest available empty spaces.

 

It doesn't mention anywhere that the OL cannot cannot spill into other tiles.

 

For my money, the underlined parts make it very clear that the figure must be placed on the tile.  Unless there's not enough room on the tile, in which case, use the closest empty spaces.  That includes "spilling over" the edge of the tile.

 

 

I am going to agree with Steve-O on this, it just seems like a huge advantage for the OL to use the expanding nature of monster movement in rigging the monster to be able to select it's first move action to be from a square NOT on the tile the quest guide states the monster starts on. That in effect means the monster's movement starts from a tile it is not supposed to be on when not invoking the rule for placing the monster on the "closest empty space" (which is meant to make sure the OL can reinforce regardless if the reinforce tile is occupied).


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#13 Steve-O

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:49 PM

Humm, well then what we are looking at here is a debate if monster placement on the map follows the same rules as monster movement on the map. Where the OL selects the square he/she desires the monster to be (a square that is on the edge of the tile), and then using the expanding nature of large monster figures to "spill" on to the neighboring tiles of the one the monster is reinforced or starts on. 

 

The only time monsters "shrink" and "expand" is when they move.  Placing monsters during set up (or via reinforcements, for that matter) is not moving, it's just being put into play.  If it were moving, it would require at least one MP expended, and monsters that aren't in play yet have no way of gaining MPs.



#14 Robin

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:40 AM

If one does as the setup rules says, all is fine.
When a specific tile is given as a setup location, it excludes any other one.

Edited by Robin, 03 September 2013 - 07:41 AM.

An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




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