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Straight End Times :: Baised on the build from 2013 Nationals


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#1 Kaine82

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:19 AM

This is a version of the deck that owned me round 1 in the North American Nationals. The guy running it had just learned the game a day or 2 before and made it to the Top 4. His friend built it and showed him how to run it.

 

It does have consistency issues, but in my playing of it it seems to win more than it looses. I had heard they guys on Winvasion talk about crazy End Times decks, but locally no one had really experimented with it. I asked Bobby how he dealt with it and he said Hidden Grove + Pageant of Shrikes saved him in the final rounds, but even he lost to the deck before the tournament broke to top 4.

 

http://deckbox.org/sets/464463

 

Orc Board

 

3 Lobber Crew

2 Bloodletter

3 Orc Warboss

2 Alluring Daemonettes

3 Shaggoth

2 Toxic Hydra

3 Wight Lord

3 Great Unclean One

3 Grimgor Ironhide

3 Keeper of Secrets

2 Lord of Change

3 Monster of the Deep

3 Arachnarok Spider

3 Bloodthirster

 

3 End Times

3 Muck

3 Rip Dere 'Eads Off!

 

3 Contested Village

3 Corpse Cart

 

How are you guys dealing with these?


Edited by Kaine82, 29 August 2013 - 07:50 AM.

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#2 Kaine82

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:39 AM

Did some testing against this yesterday.

 

Dark Elves: Seem to have the easiest time slowing it down so long as they hit Pleasure Cults early. They are still at risk with Shaggoth and Great Unclean One.

 

Chaos: My friend Leon has been playing a version of the Chaos Attack from the quest deck Mixer posted (really great deck by the way!). He added Brutal Offering and will sacrifice Demon Prince for its effect to clear the battlefield (especially if Bloodletter is in play, thinking maybe he should come out).

 

Dwarves: I played my Penny Pinching Angry Dwarf deck (see description here) against it, but lost miserably. I would try to get developments fast to Pilgrimage key units and Valaya only seemed to delay the inevitable.


Edited by Kaine82, 29 August 2013 - 06:45 AM.

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#3 Maik

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:43 AM

With 15 immediately playable cards out of 50, I would have gone with terribly inconsistent rather than just inconsistent. Furthermore, only Muck, Rip off Der Heads and the Villages will increase your draw, so once you're in a hole, it can take a long time to get out of it. The key cards are Muck and End Times, and ironically, you don't want to have both of them in your starting hand.

 

Without event recursion, such a focused deck is fragile against discards and milling, and very vulnerable to targeted hand discard (Caught the Scent or Gaze of Nagash). High Elves should win fairly consistently, since a single Mage of Loec will break your only plan. Add two quests and there is just no way at all you can win. And this is even without the help of High Elves Disdain or the Learned Mage (a pretty nice combo breaker in general).

 

When playing against End Times in more balanced decks, you've already mentioned Pleasure Cults as a big stumbling block. Orcs and Chaos will have a harder time to directly interfere with End Times, but at least Orcs have a chance to weather things out with Get Outta my Way. And all Destruction factions can use Drakenhof Castle or Mannfred von Carstein to increase the price of End Times, even as a reaction - ideally, it's not just precluded, but even canceled.

 

Apart from the High Elves, Order will usually have to weather it out, but at least the Dwarves should be good as this - My Life for the Hold or Rune of Valaya will tide you over for a round, and if you have a Dwarf Ranger and a Master Rune of Spite available, a lot of those big baddies will crumble surprisingly quick. And all of these are key cards anyway - it's not as though you'd need to put them in just against End Times.

 

So unless I'm completely missing something, this is a novelty deck, and I'd gauge it's success in your tourney to be a mixture of surprise effect and luck of the draw.

 

Edit: I initially missed the Rip Off, which does of cause add some options. On the other hand, it's such a powerful and typical Ork opening that most everybody will and should be somewhat prepared for it (Long Winter, Called Back, Demolition, ...). Replacing the Villages with Remote Monasteries would make it noticably more dangerous, I think.


Edited by Maik, 29 August 2013 - 07:56 AM.


#4 Kaine82

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:53 AM

I just realized I forgot Rip Dere 'Eads Off!. That is another option to draw 5 or 6 cards in 1 turn to get End Times.

 

I agree it can be wildly inconsistent, but in my experience it hits more than it misses.


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#5 Kaine82

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:22 AM

 And all Destruction factions can use Drakenhof Castle or Mannfred von Carstein to increase the price of End Times, even as a reaction - ideally, it's not just precluded, but even canceled.

 

Are you saying you can cancel End Times by responding with Drakenhof Castle or Mannfred von Carstein ro remove units from the discard pile?

 

I thought you could only respond to the "Action". Isn't the "Lower the cost to play this card by 1 for each card in your discard pile." part of the cost?


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#6 Maik

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:27 AM

I just realized I forgot Rip Dere 'Eads Off!. That is another option to draw 5 or 6 cards in 1 turn to get End Times.

 

I agree it can be wildly inconsistent, but in my experience it hits more than it misses.

 

So I did not miss the mighty Rip after all, it just wasn't there initially. That's reassuring, I thought that old age was beginning to catch up with me :). Anyway, try to enrich your experience by going against a typical High Elven deck that uses Mage of Loec for action denial. Which reminds me of another very useful End Times counter: the Moon Dragon.


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#7 Maik

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:34 AM

 

 And all Destruction factions can use Drakenhof Castle or Mannfred von Carstein to increase the price of End Times, even as a reaction - ideally, it's not just precluded, but even canceled.

 

Are you saying you can cancel End Times by responding with Drakenhof Castle or Mannfred von Carstein ro remove units from the discard pile?

 

I thought you could only respond to the "Action". Isn't the "Lower the cost to play this card by 1 for each card in your discard pile." part of the cost?

 

Hmm, I'm not that sure about my cunning plan, now that I think about it. Targets are checked when an action is announced and resolved, but you're right that costs are paid immediately. So no, I'm not saying that, actually :unsure:. Still, both are useful as a preventive measure.


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#8 Kaine82

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:38 AM

I will admit our meta is lacking in High Elf players. I've tried them several times and while they have answers to a lot their cool combos seem fragile. Could you post build you feel could take this down easily?


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#9 Virgo

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

http://deckbox.org/sets/413890

 

Your minds = blown.


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#10 Maik

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:51 AM

I will admit our meta is lacking in High Elf players. I've tried them several times and while they have answers to a lot their cool combos seem fragile. Could you post build you feel could take this down easily?

My tournament record will show that I'm a mediocre deckbuilder and probably an even worse player, but out of my meagre arsenal, this deck would probably work okay: http://deckbox.org/sets/338198

 

If you push the Quest until you have the Mage of Loec, and then build up Kingdom a bit before dropping the big stuff into the Battlefield, you should have a good chance in this match-up, I feel.

 

For other and probably more successful High Elf counterdecks, search deckbox for all decks that include Sally Forth and the Mage of Loec to gather some ideas.


Edited by Maik, 29 August 2013 - 09:03 AM.

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#11 Maik

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:53 AM

 

http://deckbox.org/sets/413890

 

Your minds = blown.

 

Yeah, that's the kind of balanced End Times decks that I fear a lot more than the radical approach posted here.



#12 SeanXor

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:55 AM

It is worth mentioning that at Gen Con I did beat this deck with a Chaos end times deck.  I was able to use summons of Chaos to bring in a Chaos Dragon.  This meant before End Times went off, I had already hurt one of his zones. The first game he triggered End Times, but I got the much better draw of units.  He burned one of my zones, I burnt one of his.  However, I had better defenders available in my other zones and held off the attack.  Because he already had a zone hurt he was not able to do that.  

 

In the second game I did something similar only this time I brought out End Times, burned a zone and then at the beginning of my next turn used Canacophnic scream to finish off the injured zone.  

 

The advantage to a deck that has a bit more theme/structure than just playing End times is that it is more consistent.  It does trade a little bit of speed for that consistency though.  


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#13 midnightz

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:41 AM

From Empire point of view, if you dont play Verena engines and go for ressource denial/control,you have many issues here.Ressource denial in terms of Support destruction wont help you much here, as End Times can come out of nowhere when he can discard enough cards via Muck etc.

Best thing you can do is to include Infiltrate(to screw up their muck) and add in Recon in Force,which shuts down End Times completely if you hit the right timing.


Edited by midnightz, 13 September 2013 - 07:42 AM.





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