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#1 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:58 AM

In the same vein as the 'design a monster' thread for the overlords, I would like a discussion about classes for heroes! I have an overlord (Kunzite is our group's OL), so both she and I discuss balancing issues for both heroes and the OL when it comes to hero class cards. A hero class deck consists of an initial class card (with weapon and shield/trinket/nothing), three level 1 abilities, three level 2 abilities and two level 3 abilities.

So come, sit, share your thoughts and ideas! I've been mulling over a new red class that has a very interesting concept. I'm just trying to word it so the descriptions will fit on the itty-bitty cards we get.

I present to you, heroes of Descent... The Monk.
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The Monk is a red-class character that revolves not using weapons of any kind. You aren't helpless though, as your skills will allow you to 'build' your own weapons out of your heroes' own two fists! Your input/discussion dialogue is appreciated. Without further ado, let's delve into the Monk's hero deck.


Base cards (1)

Unarmed Combat
The card reads: "You may not equip weapon cards. Instead, your unarmed attack rolls blue-red in Act I and blue-red-red in Act II. You may exhaust this card to roll blue-yellow in Act 1 or blue-red-yellow in Act II. Your unarmed attack gains: (Act I) Surge: +1 Damage, (Act II) Surge: +2 Damage."

Level 1 Cards (3)

Incredible Strike
The card reads: "Your unarmed attacks gain: Surge: Force the target to move 1 space OR after this attack, you may move up to one space."

Harmonious Body
The card reads: "If you fail the attribute test for a condition, you may exhaust this card to discard that condition after suffering its penalties. In addition, you may replace your current defense die with the black defense die, even if this card is exhausted." Costs one fatigue.

Mystic Energies
The card reads: "You may exhaust this card to add a green attack die to your dice pool. In addition, your unarmed attacks gain Pierce 1, even if this card is exhausted." Costs one fatigue.

Level 2 Cards (3)

Gift of Flight (aka 'Throw Figure')
The card reads: "As an Action: Target a 'small' figure adjacent to you and roll the blue die. The chosen figure moves from your space the range number rolled, in a straight line and ignoring other figures, into the nearest available space at the 'thrown' figure's destination. The figure then rolls defense dice as if it was attacked, adding 1 damage if the figure's intended landing area contains another figure or passes through an obstacle. If the figure lands on another small figure, that figures suffer 1 damage as well." Costs one fatigue.

Interrupted Motion
The card reads: "Exhaust this card when a monster moves adjacent to you to immediately perform an unarmed attack. If the attack deals at least 1 damage, the monster must move one space in the direction in which you attacked. If the monster is unable to make this move, he suffers an additional 1 damage." Costs two fatigue.

Crushing Fist
The card reads: "You gain +3 Health. Your unarmed attack gains Pierce 1 and Surge: Stun OR Immobilize."

Level 3 Cards (2)

Ascetic
The card reads: "Exhaust this card to ignore an Overlord card that targets you." Costs three fatigue.

Colossal Impact
The card reads: "Perform an unarmed attack. This attack targets all monsters adjacent to you. If an X is rolled on the blue die, the attack does not miss, but also adds no additional damage or surges to the dice roll." Costs two fatigue.
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Production notes:
It was a lot of fun coming up with concepts and ideas that would be fun to see, but not imbalanced. I wanted to create a set that would help heroes get through the 'blockade' setup that OLs tend to stick by, but not make it a sure-fire way to overcome the strategy.

The purpose of the 'Throw Figure' skill was intended to toss small blockade mobs out of the way, or throw a needed hero, ally or other figure over the blockade. Of course, since the throw rolls for damage (though it is not an attack), throwing a hero/ally who is low on HP is a risky venture if they roll poorly. Also, a large monster shouldn't be throwable, as the 'shrink and expand' rules for monster movement are a headache enough. The blue die can miss, causing the skill to fail and costing an action so having the cost set at 2 fatigue would be a bit too much a penalty.

Taking what skills one can, the most the unarmed attack can roll is Blue/Red/Yellow/Green or Blue/Red/Red/Green at the cost of fatigue, with the 'weapon' ultimately ending up with Pierce 2 and the following surges: +2 Damage, Stun or Immobilize, Move the Target/Self 1 space; it falls in line with some of the later Act II weapons, but the Monk sacrifices other abilities to get this 'weapon', despite not needing gold at all through most of the campaign.

The Colossal Impact skill was designed to be like Whirlwind, a level 2 skill for Berserker, but the addition to have it not miss (balanced by the blue die not adding anything else) bumps it up to level 3.

The Ascetic skill, while costly (taking all of 3-fatigue warriors' fatigue!), only affects cards that target the warrior -- things like Blinding speed would fall into it if played on the warrior (the OL gets the bonus from that class and would actively target it) and the various traps directly targeting the warrior would work, but things like blood rage that indirectly affect the Warrior (the enchanted monster is the target, the monster then targets the warrior) could not be affected by the Ascetic skill.
 

Comments? Questions? Curiosities? Let's hear it, from both sides of the game.


Edited by PlainWhiteBread, 22 August 2013 - 11:17 AM.

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#2 Silverhelm

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:36 PM

I don't have anything as far as that much detail. One idea I have is a scout that works like Bilbo from the Hobbit. He comes with a trinket that makes him invisible. The trinket can only be used once per encounter and ends on his next turn. While invisible he can't attack or be attacked and cannot search while invisible. So he would get two heroic feats with this trinket. Other one being unknown.

Haven't gave it to much thought but that's what I got so far.

#3 AltWren

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:56 AM

I don't have anything as far as that much detail. One idea I have is a scout that works like Bilbo from the Hobbit. He comes with a trinket that makes him invisible. The trinket can only be used once per encounter and ends on his next turn. While invisible he can't attack or be attacked and cannot search while invisible. So he would get two heroic feats with this trinket. Other one being unknown.

Haven't gave it to much thought but that's what I got so far.

 

Brogan the Shadow can do that.



#4 rugal

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:10 AM

I'm working on some stuff too

the real thing is missing me is a shapeshifter

 

but i'm having trouble to find a base healing power for a druid

 

 

colossal impact has not the good wording

Looking at the conversion kit, it should be

 

"Make an attack targeting all adjacents monsters. The attack does not miss on a X"


Edited by rugal, 23 August 2013 - 04:12 AM.


#5 griton

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

What about this:

 

Gift of Flight: Make an attack with only the Blue die targeting an adjacent small figure. Move the figure in a straight line, ignoring terrain and figures, up to a number of spaces equal to the range of the attack. Before rolling defense dice, the attack gains 1 :heart: if the figure passed through an obstacle or other figures.

 

or

 

Before rolling defense dice, the attack gains 1 :heart: per obstacle or figure the target moved through.


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#6 Silverhelm

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:51 AM

I don't have anything as far as that much detail. One idea I have is a scout that works like Bilbo from the Hobbit. He comes with a trinket that makes him invisible. The trinket can only be used once per encounter and ends on his next turn. While invisible he can't attack or be attacked and cannot search while invisible. So he would get two heroic feats with this trinket. Other one being unknown.
Haven't gave it to much thought but that's what I got so far.

 
Brogan the Shadow can do that.

O cool.

#7 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

What about this:

 

Gift of Flight: Make an attack with only the Blue die targeting an adjacent small figure. Move the figure in a straight line, ignoring terrain and figures, up to a number of spaces equal to the range of the attack. Before rolling defense dice, the attack gains 1 :heart: if the figure passed through an obstacle or other figures.

 

or

 

Before rolling defense dice, the attack gains 1 :heart: per obstacle or figure the target moved through.

I like the reduced text, something akin to that would definitely fit on one of those tiny cards. I went a bit at length to try and express the fact that the target would only suffer an additional damage if it LANDED on a figure, being placed in an adjacent space if it did. The description you've given says the thrown figure takes damage each time it passes through a figure, which isn't the intent of the card; The design of the card is to throw a figure OVER other figures, balanced by the chance to take damage on landing. I could change it so the 'flight' ends in the event of hitting an obstacle (or the edges of the map for that matter) for the extra damage, to give it some offensive utility.

The skill could be used offensively, by throwing small monsters at walls or each other for damage or throwing them out of other heroes' way, or as a way to get a hero or ally figure over a large monster blocking a hallway.

I love FFG's stuff, but their descriptions for rules are vague at times, and have left us scratching our heads. My verbosity stems from trying to be as clear as possible.


Edited by PlainWhiteBread, 23 August 2013 - 02:49 PM.

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#8 BillyBabel

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:39 PM

I would like 2 different classes although they strictly speaking probably don't fit descent's style.

 

1st The Gambler: a push your luck type of class with skills like

 

      "lucky shot" where for 1 stamina before you roll the dice you can can make a guess on what one of the dice will be. If you guess correctly, you can reroll that dice and add that result onto the original result.

 

    "Jackpot" where you may multiply damage times the number of dice that display the same damage result. IE doubles, dmg x2, triples dmg x3. It costs 2 stamina per dice. You may also take damage in place of stamina. Ability is free to use if 3 surges are rolled.

 

    "Lady Luck" Exhaust this card to reroll one roll.

 

    "I  make my own luck" Exhaust this card to reroll one die.Add or subtract one shield or heart to the result.

 

    "Snake Eyes" where if you ever roll two blanks for defense the attacking monster is instantly defeated before it can do damage.

 

   "Shell Game"  where you take all 4 of the cards with the hero symbols with the backs facing the overlord, show the overlord which card is yours, then put it in with the other 3 and shuffle them in sight of the overlord. The overlord will then pick cards one by one, For every card he picks that is not your hero symbol, gain +1 defense. Lose one stamina for every card still in your hand after the overlord has removed your card

 

   "Lucky Break" When you roll a miss, instantly roll a red die and recover health equal to the amount rolled.

 

    "The Price is Right" Where after the heroes have finished looking at the items cards in the shop deck, the overlord may then take the shop cards, remove one if he so wishes and then shuffle them. The gamber must then guess a gold value, and draw a card, if the item's gold value is the same as the guess, the gambler gets the item for free.

 

I don't know how balanced these would be, or how much xp each one should be worth, but this would be just kind of a fun little joke class that could get your gambling addicted friends away from slots and into your descent den ;D

 

I'll write up the other one later.


Edited by BillyBabel, 26 August 2013 - 12:09 AM.

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#9 griton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

I like the reduced text, something akin to that would definitely fit on one of those tiny cards. I went a bit at length to try and express the fact that the target would only suffer an additional damage if it LANDED on a figure, being placed in an adjacent space if it did. The description you've given says the thrown figure takes damage each time it passes through a figure, which isn't the intent of the card; The design of the card is to throw a figure OVER other figures, balanced by the chance to take damage on landing. I could change it so the 'flight' ends in the event of hitting an obstacle (or the edges of the map for that matter) for the extra damage, to give it some offensive utility.

Ah. I think I misread that. Perhaps this:

 

Gift of Flight: Make an unarmed attack with only the Blue die targeting an adjacent small figure. Place the figure in a space that is up to a number of spaces away equal to the range of the attack and in a straight line from the hero. If that space is occupied, add 1 :heart: to the attack before rolling defense dice and place the figure in the nearest empty space.


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#10 griton

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:23 PM

I'd love to see a class that interacted with the monster traits. Similar to the D&D Ranger that got to choose favored targets. The class would come with 8 trait tokens, one for each monster trait (Wilderness, Civilized, Caves, etc.)

 

Base Card: :action: Select one of the 8 monster traits and place the appropriate trait token on this card. (Only one trait token may be on this card at a time) Any monster in a group that matches that trait token is now a favored target. Attacks against favored targets gain 1 :heart:

 

Then other class skills would interact with favored targets similarly to how the Hexer can place hexes on targets. This would really encourage the overlord to spread out their monster types so that the class couldn't easily affect every monster group. I would've called this the Stalker, but that's already used for the Trap-based Scout class that's in Trollfens.

 

Other skills could include:

 

Gaining a surge when targeting a favored target. (1 XP)

Regain health/fatigue after defeating a favored target (1/1 for a 1XP card or 2/2 for a 2XP card)

Extra defense from favored targets. (Brown for a 1 XP card or Silver for a 2XP card)

Extra Movement when not within a certain number of spaces (Speed?) of a favored target. (2 for a 1XP card, a free move action for a 2 XP card) (Would primarily be used for closing the distance, but could be used for evasive maneuvers on large maps as well.)
Duplicate of the Base card (allowing for a second favored target trait). (2 XP)

A teleport + attack against a favored target (2 XP)

Removing a trait token from the base card to make an attack targeting all favored targets (3 XP)

Extra move/attack after defeating a favored target (like Knight's Advance, but not limited to 1 / turn, so could be chained) (3 XP)

 

After looking this over, I'm thinking this would probably be a Warrior Archetype, "Monster Hunter" perhaps?

 

Not really sure how it would work with Lieutenants. If they couldn't have lieutenants as a favored target, then they are almost worthless in the Finale. Would it be better to have "Lieutenant" as an available trait for them to choose, or gain the ability to choose lieutenants via a skill card? If always, I'd say that they could choose 1 specific lieutenant (by placing a hero token on the lieutenant card) instead of just having all lieutenants act as favored targets.

 

An alternative would be to just place tokens on the monster group cards instead of basing on specific traits, but I like the idea of it interacting with the overlord choices. (e.g. It would cause a Splig-focused OL to have to think twice about choosing all Wilderness-based monster groups)


Edited by griton, 26 August 2013 - 02:28 PM.

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#11 Kunzite

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:35 PM

I really like some of the ideas coming in here. Plain White Bread and his throwing ability sounds fun. I like how the working of it out is causing it to be a bit more balanced.

 

Griton's Monster hunter also sounds really fun. As the OL, I would enjoy playing around something like this.


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#12 SolennelBern

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:54 AM

In an other thread discussing future Archetypes possibilities I talked about 2 ideas I have for D2E.  Dunno how feasable they are or how well this could be implemented but I thought they look cool.  So here it comes!

 

1- The Bard Archetype

 

I got this idea after thinking about the old RPGs I played when I was younger like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc.  In those games the Bard was a jack-of-all-trades mixing Rogue-like abilities and some magic.  But most importantly the Bard could buff allies with Songs where each Song would boost a specific trait or ability.  Some Song could up your DPS while others would boost your defence.

 

My 2 ideas about the Bard:

  1. Make it an Archetype with 4 classes where each class would boost 1 specific element.
    1. The Skald: Add 1 wound on melee attacks
    2. The Minstrel: Boost one Attribute by 1
    3. The Scribe: Add 1 wound on Magic attacks
    4. The ???: Add 1 shield on defense roll
  2. Make it a 5th class of the Scout Archetype that could boost some elements of a character for X rounds.

 

2- The Crafter Archetype

 

This Archetype could destroy Search and Shop Items to transform them in materials with which he could craft Items, portions or even enchant items during the Shopping step of the Campaign phase .  But to work properly it would need some specific tokens and/or cards to be playable imo.  Maybe even a Crafting Die that you would roll everytime you destroy a Search/Shop Card to determine what mats you get.  It would probably need a Specific Crafted Item deck for each 4 types.  I don't know yet how this all could work, maybe when crafting you would randomly draw a card from the specific deck or you could choose from the ones available...really don't know lol.

  1. The Smith: Craft weapons and Armor
  2. The Alchemist: Potion brewing with minor effects - Healing 1 red die or
  3. The Enchanter: Enchant weapons and armor with minor effect - +1 Surge or +1 damage, etc
  4. The Jeweler: Accessory Crafting like rings, amulets, etc

 

Those are mostly vague ideas that I think would be fun and cool to play with.  The Crafter Archetype would be neat as you would be able to destroy items you don't like and transform them into something a bit more useful.

 

3- Multiclassing

 

And here's an idea I have about multiclassing.  You could, while spending XP, choose another class from a new Archetype:

 

- Your Secondary Class must be of a different Archetype than your Primary Class.

- You need to have at least one level 2 skill in your Primary Class before selecting a Secondary Class skill.

- Your Secondary Class is limited to level 1 skills.

- At all times you must have at least one more skill in your Primary Class than in your Secondary Class.

- You cannot use the starting equipment of your Secondary Class.

- All level 1 Secondary Class skills cost 2XP (not sure about this one)

- Only your Primary Archetype count when towards skill that affect specific Archetype (like with the Basic II Overlord cards).

- You are limited to one Secondary Archetype.

- You can only choose a Secondary Archetype that no one uses, even if it's a Secondary one.


Edited by SolennelBern, 29 August 2013 - 11:04 AM.

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#13 Silverhelm

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

In an other thread discussing future Archetypes possibilities I talked about 2 ideas I have for D2E. Dunno how feasable they are or how well this could be implemented but I thought they look cool. So here it comes!

1- The Bard Archetype

I got this idea after thinking about the old RPGs I played when I was younger like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc. In those games the Bard was a jack-of-all-trades mixing Rogue-like abilities and some magic. But most importantly the Bard could buff allies with Songs where each Song would boost a specific trait or ability. Some Song could up your DPS while others would boost your defence.

My 2 ideas about the Bard:

  • Make it an Archetype with 4 classes where each class would boost 1 specific element.
    • The Skald: Add 1 wound on melee attacks
    • The Minstrel: Boost one Attribute by 1
    • The Scribe: Add 1 wound on Magic attacks
    • The ???: Add 1 shield on defense roll
  • Make it a 5th class of the Scout Archetype that could boost some elements of a character for X rounds.
2- The Crafter Archetype

This Archetype could destroy Search and Shop Items to transform them in materials with which he could craft Items, portions or even enchant items during the Shopping step of the Campaign phase . But to work properly it would need some specific tokens and/or cards to be playable imo. Maybe even a Crafting Die that you would roll everytime you destroy a Search/Shop Card to determine what mats you get. It would probably need a Specific Crafted Item deck for each 4 types. I don't know yet how this all could work, maybe when crafting you would randomly draw a card from the specific deck or you could choose from the ones available...really don't know lol.
  • The Smith: Craft weapons and Armor
  • The Alchemist: Potion brewing with minor effects - Healing 1 red die or
  • The Enchanter: Enchant weapons and armor with minor effect - +1 Surge or +1 damage, etc
  • The Jeweler: Accessory Crafting like rings, amulets, etc
Those are mostly vague ideas that I think would be fun and cool to play with. The Crafter Archetype would be neat as you would be able to destroy items you don't like and transform them into something a bit more useful.

3- Multiclassing

And here's an idea I have about multiclassing. You could, while spending XP, choose another class from a new Archetype:

- Your Secondary Class must be of a different Archetype than your Primary Class.
- You need to have at least one level 2 skill in your Primary Class before selecting a Secondary Class skill.
- Your Secondary Class is limited to level 1 skills.
- At all times you must have at least one more skill in your Primary Class than in your Secondary Class.
- You cannot use the starting equipment of your Secondary Class.
- All level 1 Secondary Class skills cost 2XP (not sure about this one)
- Only your Primary Archetype count when towards skill that affect specific Archetype (like with the Basic II Overlord cards).
- You are limited to one Secondary Archetype.
- You can only choose a Secondary Archetype that no one uses, even if it's a Secondary one.
Love that crafting idea very nice! I'd love to see something like that as just a class even.

Edited by Silverhelm, 29 August 2013 - 05:06 PM.

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