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Auspex and detection


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#1 K0balt

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:23 AM

So, I have a bit of a conundrum.

 

An Auspex can detect life signs, it can detect radiation, EM, it also apparently functions as a spectrometer (since they are able to detect gasses and analyse the composition of materials). Yes, we are able to detect/register those in actual modern-day life, but not with the ease of use/range that these seem to have. Especially if you assume that this is all done by the same handheld device (which, given the level of technology in the Imperium, is not hard to believe).

 

So my question is this: how do you sneak by an Auspex wielded by a competent user? A regular Auspex has an Availability of Scarce (so best quality would only be very rare), which would make it relatively ubiquitous in settings where their use would be highly beneficial (armed forces, security, labs, etc...). Ubiquitous enough that I can't imagine how one would avoid detection, especially if they are fine-tuned by a tech-priest to detect intruders (which isn't far-fetched).

 

So... apart from psychic powers and sorcery, are there any technological/biological countermeasures to Auspex detection? How do you handle this particular problem, which is two-fold: how is it conceivable for PCs to sneak by any well-equipped force, and conversely, how could anything sneak by them?



#2 Plasmafest

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 04:20 AM

Keep in mind that by the setting, those 'competent users' are fairly rare. Merely using the auspex as a threat finder requires a Tech-Use test, and with a limited range at that. I'm not sure what systems you'd use to deliberately fox them - aside from normal distraction techniques, maybe spiced with Blind grenades to draw their attention away from you. Note also that the auspex would never register a threat as such, just heat, movement and chemical composition, so making like a native life form could still work - they might get too bored to look closely enough.

No idea what an auspex would make of anything daemonic, it might even break down.



#3 MKX

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 05:36 AM

Synskin is typically the way to get past most of the more advanced sensors that use IR & Darksight, unless the operator would be constantly flicking through settings that use different wavelengths of detection... which might be amusing for about the first 5minutes or until the boss stops looking, in which case they'll probably be bored and goofing off in no time like anyone else.

 

Failing that, diversions always work fairly well by having everyone go look at a raging inferno, ruptured gas main or water pipe pissing a mess everywhere... provided it looks like an accident, it'll provide some form of entertainment for bored people on guard duty and maybe if its serious enough, thin out the lines as people are sent out to help un-f*** whatever catastrophe is nearby.



#4 K0balt

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:34 AM

Keep in mind that by the setting, those 'competent users' are fairly rare. Merely using the auspex as a threat finder requires a Tech-Use test, and with a limited range at that. I'm not sure what systems you'd use to deliberately fox them - aside from normal distraction techniques, maybe spiced with Blind grenades to draw their attention away from you. Note also that the auspex would never register a threat as such, just heat, movement and chemical composition, so making like a native life form could still work - they might get too bored to look closely enough.

No idea what an auspex would make of anything daemonic, it might even break down.

 

The blind grenade wouldn't do much... it's not a camera, their are no optics to blind or damage. The native lifeform thing would work (as long as native lifeforms are even a thing...).

 

Synskin is typically the way to get past most of the more advanced sensors that use IR & Darksight, unless the operator would be constantly flicking through settings that use different wavelengths of detection... which might be amusing for about the first 5minutes or until the boss stops looking, in which case they'll probably be bored and goofing off in no time like anyone else.

 

Failing that, diversions always work fairly well by having everyone go look at a raging inferno, ruptured gas main or water pipe pissing a mess everywhere... provided it looks like an accident, it'll provide some form of entertainment for bored people on guard duty and maybe if its serious enough, thin out the lines as people are sent out to help un-f*** whatever catastrophe is nearby.

 

IR & Darksight are nice, but if it were me setting up an Auspex I think I would set it to register something a bit more exotic (heartbeats? or other kinds of body radiations?). And what if a tech-priest sets a servitor with an auspex for the sole purpose of regularly switching between channels?

 

Distractions are nice, sure. But what if there are no people to distract, just automated sensors?

 

Imagine this set-up: A Heretek has set up a secret lab. It is currently empty, save for the automated defenses (he's a heretek, AI limitations don't apply to him). Any alert of any kind would either A. initiate a lockdown or B. void the research the PCs have come to get. How do you handle that, even assuming you have full details of the security measures (blueprints, traps, cameras, wavelengths recorded, etc...)?

 

Thanks for the answers!



#5 Plasmafest

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:07 AM

"Blind grenades detonate with a burst of dense smoke, IR bafflers and broadband EM-spectrum chaff, all of which is designed to block detection through the cloud. Sensors and vision that would pierce normal smoke cannot see through haze created b a blind grenade".

 

Seems to fit the bill to me.

 

Even if the heretek in question built his secret base on an airless rock, he'd still have to allow a filter of some sort for false alarms, or see his base self-destruct at the proverbial hat-drop. This creates enough margin of error for a suitably prepared and sneaky individual to get by, especially if you could loot some sort of stealth apparatus; Tau, archeotech, xenos Mcguffin...



#6 Zenoth16

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

Imagine this set-up: A Heretek has set up a secret lab. It is currently empty, save for the automated defenses (he's a heretek, AI limitations don't apply to him). Any alert of any kind would either A. initiate a lockdown or B. void the research the PCs have come to get. How do you handle that, even assuming you have full details of the security measures (blueprints, traps, cameras, wavelengths recorded, etc...)?

 

Thanks for the answers!

 

 

What I would do in that case is to set Gun-Cutter with its back hatch open and position it so that when the research is vented the Gun-cutter catches it all. Then I would intentionally trigger the system. If it choose lock down instead then get a las-cutter and breach the door. Toss a blind granade and take out the defenses before the smoke clears. Quick, clean, efficient.



#7 K0balt

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:20 AM

"Blind grenades detonate with a burst of dense smoke, IR bafflers and broadband EM-spectrum chaff, all of which is designed to block detection through the cloud. Sensors and vision that would pierce normal smoke cannot see through haze created b a blind grenade".

 

Seems to fit the bill to me.

 

Even if the heretek in question built his secret base on an airless rock, he'd still have to allow a filter of some sort for false alarms, or see his base self-destruct at the proverbial hat-drop. This creates enough margin of error for a suitably prepared and sneaky individual to get by, especially if you could loot some sort of stealth apparatus; Tau, archeotech, xenos Mcguffin...

 

Well, yeah, blind grenades would create an impenetrable cloud that would certainly distract the Auspex to the exact position of the Heretics, but it would still set it off...

 

About the macguffin stuff, that sounds like a good idea, but I'm loathe to use them. I'll have to think about it.

 

 

Imagine this set-up: A Heretek has set up a secret lab. It is currently empty, save for the automated defenses (he's a heretek, AI limitations don't apply to him). Any alert of any kind would either A. initiate a lockdown or B. void the research the PCs have come to get. How do you handle that, even assuming you have full details of the security measures (blueprints, traps, cameras, wavelengths recorded, etc...)?

 

Thanks for the answers!

 

 

What I would do in that case is to set Gun-Cutter with its back hatch open and position it so that when the research is vented the Gun-cutter catches it all. Then I would intentionally trigger the system. If it choose lock down instead then get a las-cutter and breach the door. Toss a blind granade and take out the defenses before the smoke clears. Quick, clean, efficient.

 

 

Voided as in entirely deleted, blown up, dissolved in acid or otherwise irredeemably destroyed. Simply launching it into space would be the worst idea possible for data "protection" by orders of magnitude. Sorry about the confusion.



#8 Keffisch

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:02 AM

Is his lab protected against teleporting?

 

(Teleport in, grab stuff, and teleport out).


Edited by Keffisch, 28 August 2013 - 01:02 AM.


#9 K0balt

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:43 AM

Is his lab protected against teleporting?

 

(Teleport in, grab stuff, and teleport out).

 

Void shields prevent teleportation.



#10 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:25 AM

For any sensor tech there is an equivalent stealth technology. Preysight Masks (Dark Heresy) is essentially a microfine set of cooling lines which reduce or eliminate your thermal signature. Sealed suits (at Mechanicum level of technology) would eliminate any odour/chemical trace. For that matter, refractory coatings can make armour functionally undetectable by specific wavelengths - see Legion where Alpharius calmly walks through a field covered in motion sensor 'tripwire' beams and doesn't set off any of them, despite making no effort to avoid them.

 

Haywire charges blow out sensors before they can trigger whatever alarm they may be connected to, or blind charges create a temporary...well...blind spot. Both might trigger an alert, but it depends on how smart the sensor is (not necessarily the Machine Spirit behind it, either - no matter how smart you are, if the alarm didn't go off, it didn't go off).

 

Picking out the bio-traces of an individual becomes night impossible if they are buried in an appropriate mass of bio-matter (hence why the damn things are of limited use in a jungle or on a tyranid ship) - not relevant here, of course.

 

Also, why on earth discount Psychic powers and sorcery? If in doubt, cheat laws of physics.

 

 

 

 

Imagine this set-up: A Heretek has set up a secret lab. It is currently empty, save for the automated defenses (he's a heretek, AI limitations don't apply to him). Any alert of any kind would either A. initiate a lockdown or B. void the research the PCs have come to get. How do you handle that, even assuming you have full details of the security measures (blueprints, traps, cameras, wavelengths recorded, etc...)?

 

Thanks for the answers!

 

 

 

Use correct access code, walk in, help self to recaff, pick up research, scribble insulting note on piece of flensed minion skin, leave.

 

The way to beat an impenetrable fortress is not to penetrate it, it's to get someone to let you in.

Ultimately, however convoluted the security protocols, there must be a way to disable them and get in or out, or he wouldn't have bothered building the place in the first place.

 

Thought #1 - extract appropriate access procedures from enemy minion

Thought #2 - make him think you've got hold of the access procedures, convince him you can and will make a play for the vault contents, then when he either goes to reinforce the defences or move the research, you have a window to get in where the self-destruct must be disabled.

Thought #3 - find something to offer that he wants more than the research. "Continued Existance" is usually a good starting point.


Edited by Magnus Grendel, 04 September 2013 - 03:29 AM.


#11 K0balt

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:55 AM

For any sensor tech there is an equivalent stealth technology. Preysight Masks (Dark Heresy) is essentially a microfine set of cooling lines which reduce or eliminate your thermal signature. Sealed suits (at Mechanicum level of technology) would eliminate any odour/chemical trace. For that matter, refractory coatings can make armour functionally undetectable by specific wavelengths - see Legion where Alpharius calmly walks through a field covered in motion sensor 'tripwire' beams and doesn't set off any of them, despite making no effort to avoid them.

 

Haywire charges blow out sensors before they can trigger whatever alarm they may be connected to, or blind charges create a temporary...well...blind spot. Both might trigger an alert, but it depends on how smart the sensor is (not necessarily the Machine Spirit behind it, either - no matter how smart you are, if the alarm didn't go off, it didn't go off).

 

Picking out the bio-traces of an individual becomes night impossible if they are buried in an appropriate mass of bio-matter (hence why the damn things are of limited use in a jungle or on a tyranid ship) - not relevant here, of course.

 

Also, why on earth discount Psychic powers and sorcery? If in doubt, cheat laws of physics.

 

 

 

 

Imagine this set-up: A Heretek has set up a secret lab. It is currently empty, save for the automated defenses (he's a heretek, AI limitations don't apply to him). Any alert of any kind would either A. initiate a lockdown or B. void the research the PCs have come to get. How do you handle that, even assuming you have full details of the security measures (blueprints, traps, cameras, wavelengths recorded, etc...)?

 

Thanks for the answers!

 

 

 

Use correct access code, walk in, help self to recaff, pick up research, scribble insulting note on piece of flensed minion skin, leave.

 

The way to beat an impenetrable fortress is not to penetrate it, it's to get someone to let you in.

Ultimately, however convoluted the security protocols, there must be a way to disable them and get in or out, or he wouldn't have bothered building the place in the first place.

 

Thought #1 - extract appropriate access procedures from enemy minion

Thought #2 - make him think you've got hold of the access procedures, convince him you can and will make a play for the vault contents, then when he either goes to reinforce the defences or move the research, you have a window to get in where the self-destruct must be disabled.

Thought #3 - find something to offer that he wants more than the research. "Continued Existance" is usually a good starting point.

 

Haywire charges are a good idea. Problem is procuring them, but it'd work.

 

As to why I dismiss sorcery, it's just because it's too obvious a solution, and I wanted to see what people would come up with without having recourse to it. And since it's conceivable to create a sensor for it (considering all the techno-arcane stuff that goes on in the Vortex), the lab might be secure against it too, you never know...

 

Of course, having the correct access codes is the easiest solution... but what if it is a complex, encrypted code, broadcast by an implant of the heretek when he activates it? You could hijack it (but that would leave a very dead heretek, but if that's no problem...) or try to record and break it (but that would require baiting him into going to the facility and access to a pretty powerful cogitator, which is another idea for a plot hook I guess...). And if the guy is paranoid/secretive enough to prefer losing his research to having it stolen from him, I doubt he'd confide in any minion...

 

Anyway thanks a bunch for the ideas!






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