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GenCon LS Funding


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#1 SirKhan

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:25 AM

http://boardgamegeek...ht-side-funding

 



#2 Hida77

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:32 AM

Uhh K?


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2014 Star Wars: The Card Game US Nationals Finalist

2013 Star Wars: The Card Game Worlds Top 16

8xX-wing, 5xB-Wing, 2xYT-1300, 4xY-Wing, 5xA-Wing, 2xHWK-290, 3xE-Wing, 7xZ-95, 1xYT-2400, 2xGR-75, 1xCR-90

8xTIE/LN, 11xTIE/IN, 2xTIE/Adv, 4xTIE/as, 3xTIE/Ph, 3xTIE/D, 3xFirespray-31, 3xLambda, 1xDecimator


#3 SirKhan

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:20 PM

Was that a specific idea Hida77?



#4 MarthWMaster

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:42 AM

Was that a specific idea Hida77?

 

I think what Hida77 was trying to say, was that in the interest of providing quick and digestible information, the author of that post was a tad too overzealous and neglected to explain anything, such as why Snowspeeders would not be good enough, why Chewbacca's pod is awful, etc.


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#5 SirKhan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:33 PM

I am the author and would be glad to go into more detail. 

 

Further explanation:

 

1) Speeder decks main problem is inconsistent objective openings. DS Navy has 2 objectives that cheat capital ships/vehicles ( Deploy the Fleet/Kuat Reinforcements); this creates a consistent way to swarm ships/vehicles into play.

 

LS Speeder decks only have Defense of Yavin 4, which is amazing, but only 2 out of 10 objectives. The latest Hoth addition may push this deck over the top, but LS too often has to play ships at full cost, which is too slow. 

 

2) Wookie Life Debt has a great card (Chewbacca), but 1 out of 5 cards isn't good enough. Wookie Warrior is the bulk card in the pod and usually sits with a lowly unit damage icon and that's all. Heat of Battle and Let the Wookie Win are good, but Wookie Warrior is too often a dead card. 

 

The real issue is who Chebacca is who it is competing with: Luke Skywalker, Col Serra, Han Solo, and Red 5 are all better with Millennium Falcon. 

 

Thanks for the discussion Marth.


Edited by SirKhan, 17 August 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#6 bobbywhiskey

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:20 PM

Col serra over chewbacca......riiiiiight.

 

You realize protect is a thing right? The decks that are around now arent ONLY about abusing the falcon. You drop han in with the falcon with this deck with vader on the table and they just choke him? No thanks. The wookies easily get a damage on them with protect, or without lifee debt on table, a let the wookie win. Red 5 is very fragile also, but not horrible. You also have no event cancel so you will also get blown out by force lightning,capture,interrogation etc. I can live with having to top deck a 3p0 for that if i have like 10 protectors in the deck for the other stuff.

 

No answers AT ALL for ANY ds event, even just protect wall to soak chokes, sounds terrbile. Also god help you if you lose an edge battle against some unit damage (talking in general not the falcon obvisouly). Even rebel vehicle decks need s&s ywings.



#7 SirKhan

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:59 PM

Fair enough. Protect pods are great at defense, but light on attack. The push/pull for LS isn't new to the game. 

 

1) Col Serra's objective is fantastic. Extra edge cards are always needed.

2) I am aware there are other decks to pick from other than Falcon builds. I am exploring ways/failed ways to abuse the powerful pod. 

 

What are LS builds you are playing with?

 

I didn't expect Vader/Palpatine to see much play post Sleuth Scout. Vader was very prominent in the Top 16 at GenCon. I think protect is a great mechanic in the game, but the old Smuggler's Den deck was too light on units. 

 

The Falcon decks that did well at GenCon did have protect. The Secret of Yavin 4 pod is still preferable than the Wookie LIfe debt. 

 

Is this something you like better?

 

Jedi:

 

Secret of Yavin 4 x2

Asteroid Sanctuary x2

A Hero's Journey x2

Wookie Life Debt x2

Last Defense of Hoth x2

 

Or: New Hoth Set Speeder:

 

Smugglers:

 

Attack Pattern Delta x2

Defense of Yavin 4 x2

Hoth Operations x2

The Rebel Fleet x2

Raise the Stakes x2 OR Renegade Squadron Mobilization x2 



#8 bobbywhiskey

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:02 PM

Ive just stuck with the "standard" (depending who you ask) 2x luke 2x han 2x chewie 2x falcon 2x secret of yavin. I think that or a 2x han 2x falcon 2x chewie 2x lando and eithe 2 x echo cavs or 2x raise the stakes not for blockade runner really, tho it is a nice surprise if you didnt put it's obj out and someone isn't super vigilant on the cards you've played, but for the fact that that build lets you have all 4 cloud city operatives and swindles. Still not a big fan of col serra, last defense is a bit of a double edged sword, its not jsut a pure plus like some peopel seem to think it is. If you top deck something like a twist of fate at a time that it wasnt really all that helpful, that makes you're opponent fear twist alot less the rest of the game. Just one example, but sometimes it gives out information you dont want it to. It is a really good counter for twist tho. If i was dead set on playing col serra, it would be in place of echo/raise the stakes in the above build, because stingning insult would be alot better, and you can still use the falcon with him. Stinging insult can be VERY powerful with chewbacca. Most of the time though, his pod is kinda meh.
.

Vader/Palp arent going anywhere for a LOOONG time. Slueth decks arent consistent enough, you still NEED them against mains, and you can solve the problem of having enough weenies for slueths in the last few pods you choose usually. You just have to know when to edge a palp against a slueth deck and play the 2 cost guys instead etc. People are starting to figure that out.

 

I think the new pack adds alot to navy/rebels, but for now i'd say it looks to be "fun decks" that have a chance at being top decks, but cant say for sure till they've been around for awhile. May end up with a meta wher this deck beats that deck which beats that deck etc, rock paper sciossors style.

 

For the most part though i think there is alot more in player skill in this game then people give it credit for and that is the real factor. It can be a swingy game, and you can get bit in a game by bad luck, but you rarely lose a whole MATCH to bad luck.


Edited by bobbywhiskey, 17 August 2013 - 10:06 PM.


#9 SirKhan

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:01 AM

Ive just stuck with the "standard" (depending who you ask) 2x luke 2x han 2x chewie 2x falcon 2x secret of yavin. I think that or a 2x han 2x falcon 2x chewie 2x lando and eithe 2 x echo cavs or 2x raise the stakes not for blockade runner really, tho it is a nice surprise if you didnt put it's obj out and someone isn't super vigilant on the cards you've played, but for the fact that that build lets you have all 4 cloud city operatives and swindles. Still not a big fan of col serra, last defense is a bit of a double edged sword, its not jsut a pure plus like some peopel seem to think it is. If you top deck something like a twist of fate at a time that it wasnt really all that helpful, that makes you're opponent fear twist alot less the rest of the game. Just one example, but sometimes it gives out information you dont want it to. It is a really good counter for twist tho. If i was dead set on playing col serra, it would be in place of echo/raise the stakes in the above build, because stingning insult would be alot better, and you can still use the falcon with him. Stinging insult can be VERY powerful with chewbacca. Most of the time though, his pod is kinda meh.
.

Vader/Palp arent going anywhere for a LOOONG time. Slueth decks arent consistent enough, you still NEED them against mains, and you can solve the problem of having enough weenies for slueths in the last few pods you choose usually. You just have to know when to edge a palp against a slueth deck and play the 2 cost guys instead etc. People are starting to figure that out.

 

I think the new pack adds alot to navy/rebels, but for now i'd say it looks to be "fun decks" that have a chance at being top decks, but cant say for sure till they've been around for awhile. May end up with a meta wher this deck beats that deck which beats that deck etc, rock paper sciossors style.

 

For the most part though i think there is alot more in player skill in this game then people give it credit for and that is the real factor. It can be a swingy game, and you can get bit in a game by bad luck, but you rarely lose a whole MATCH to bad luck.

 

 

Cloud City Operatives seems over priced and not really great for doing what LS wants: destroying objectives. However, I too have played with all Smuggler builds. I like your " 2x han 2x falcon 2x chewie 2x lando and eithe 2 x echo cavs or 2x raise the stakes" idea. 

 

 

"Golden Gun"

Smuggler 

 

Lando x2

Han x2  or Chewie x2

Falcon x2

Raise the Stakes x2

Sleuth Scout x2

 

Before I get slugged here, just consider the deck a thought experiment. I don't think Lando's pod is good enough. I play it for his 2 resource objective and its decent reaction to events. 

 

Here are the Top 16 results from GenCon (I don't know if these have been posted already).

 

 

SWLCG Nationals Top 16:

 

Jon Herr

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,26,30,30,36

Light Side (Rebel): 8,8,11,11,44,44,49,49,70,70

 

Adam Johnson

Dark Side (Sith): 23,23,26,26,31,32,32,35,56,56

Light Side (Rebel): 8,8,11,11,12,12,13,13,38,38

 

Matt Kohls

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,26,30,30,36

Light Side (Rebel): 8,8,11,11,44,44,49,49,70,70

 

Grant Huddleston

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,26,26,36,87

Light Side (Smugglers): 15,15,70,70,71,71,72,72,74,74

 

James Booker

Dark Side (Scum): 19,19,20,20,23,23,24,80,86,86

Light Side (Jedi): 1,1,5,5,15,15,69,69,72,72

 

Jon Wojcik

Dark Side (Sith): 19,19,20,22,22,23,23,40,40,42

Light Side (Rebel): 8,8,11,11,44,44,70,70,72,72

 

David Buschermohle

Dark Side (Scum): 19,19,20,20,23,23,80,86,86,87

Light Side (Smugglers): 15,15,69,69,70,71,72,72,74,74

 

Ron Longhair

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,25,26,26,36

Light Side (Jedi): 1,1,5,15,15,53,69,69,72,72 

 

Adam Huber

Dark Side (Sith): 19,19,20,20,81,81,82,82,85,85

Light Side (Smugglers): 15,15,70,70,71,71,72,72,74,74

 

Garritt Pruim

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,24,29,46,89

Light Side (Jedi): 1,1,5,5,15,15,44,44,72,72

 

Justin McBride

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,24,26,46,89

Light Side (Jedi): 1,1,5,5,15,15,44,44,72,72

 

Zach Bunn

Dark Side (Navy): 19,19,20,20,23,23,26,26,29,87

Light Side (Smugglers): 1,1,2,2,5,5,6,15,15,71,71

 

Ben Hosp

Dark Side (Navy): 27,27,28,29,31,46,46,50,58,82

Light Side (Rebel): 8,13,38,38,39,44,44,45,45,73

 

Tim Fournier

Dark Side (Scum): 47,47,57,57,80,80,81,81,85,85

Light Side (Smugglers): 2,2,5,5,15,15,37,37,69,69

 

Scott Egan

Dark Side (Navy): 26,26,28,32,32,36,42,56,56,58

Light Side (Smugglers): 15,15,54,54,69,69,71,71,72,72

 

Phillip Schrader

Dark Side (Navy): 26,26,31,31,42,51,51,56,56,58

Light Side (Smugglers): 15,15,44,70,70,71,71,73,74,74

 

 

Soooo, Vader is 19 and Palpatine is 23. How often do we see them from 16 DS decks? Out of a possible 32 chances, only 13. That is not a dominate card choice. Clearly still popular, but I think the meta is too young for the moment. Edge of Darkness was a much needed booster. And Col Serra saw ZERO play, so I will concede him to the box. LS builds are all over the place. I think people are still trying to figure out what works. Han Solo, Luke, and Falcon saw lots of play, as well as LS Vehicle decks.  

 

And where is Chewie in this top 16? Only THREE decks ran him. 3/16 isn't a great showing. His pod isn't good enough.

 

I am thrilled to run the new Vader's Fist mixed with a trooper defense deck. I don't think the deck will ever want to turn sideways with Navy Vader. Just set up a fortress of unit damage. 

 

Take this shell:

"NWA"
Affiliation: Scum/Villainy 

Across the Jutland Wastes x2
Take them Prisoner x2 
A Dark Time for the Rebellion x2
Imperial Command x2
Trandoshan Terror x2

 

Take out the Trandoshan Terror and add Vader's Fist. Your affiliation would switch to Sith. I can't wait to shuffle up the build. 

 

"5 oh First Street"

Sith

 

Across the Jutland Wastes x2 
Take them Prisoner x2 
A Dark Time for the Rebellion x2
Imperial Command x2

Vader's Fist x2

 

You could even go back to a more Hothy build with Sabotage in the Snow x1 and Shadows on the Ice x1; cut Across the Jutland.


Edited by SirKhan, 18 August 2013 - 05:06 AM.


#10 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:37 AM

You don't think Lando's set is good enough ?! Wow. That objective set is amazing.

#11 SirKhan

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:05 AM

You don't think Lando's set is good enough ?! Wow. That objective set is amazing.

 

1) You have to play Smugglers. I love Smugglers and Spies, but I also like to splash Luke, Speeders, or at least have the option to. 

 

2) The objective Trust Me is great. 2 resources makes or breaks a lot of decks DS or LS. The reaction seems good as well.

 

3) Card by card:

Casino is always great. 

Sabotage is a pass for me.

Sabotuer is cute but fails the "Does this blow up objectives?" test.

Target of Opportunity is always a winner.

Last but not least: Lando himself. Similar to Chewie, he is good, but outclassed. He is fragile and most GenCon players agreed. If they had to pick Han or Lando, Han was the preferred weapon. Lando does a ton a work, but 2 hit points is a huge disadvantage. If Trust Me was a non-affiliation lock card, it would be amazing. I tried building with it but it just doesn't work well with other affiliation mixes (just like Journey to Dagobah). 

 

Trust Me is a solid pod, but ultimately doesn't interact with Mr. Falcon as well as Han Solo does. Then again, I might need to test Lando more. Are you running him in straight Smuggler builds? Suggested lists?



#12 Toqtamish

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:13 AM

Use Han and Lando, why limit yourself to one or the other ?  Han with Lando's ability works well.






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