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#1 AltWren

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:07 AM

Giants have sweep and reach.  That means they attack each figure they can LOS within two squares of themselves.  So do they hit each other then?



#2 RagsMckay

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:36 AM

Found this on BGG from Justin:

 

The key difference is in "targets" versus "affects." Since "Sweep" is an attack that "affects" each hero in range, and both the Heavy Cloak and Unseen require the hero to be a "target," they could not be used.
As far as triggering Heavy Cloak and Unseen:
Heavy Cloak has to be triggered during 2. Roll Dice of Combat. The Thief can't wait to see what the overlord might trigger before he uses the item.

Unseen has to be exhausted during the Thief's turn and is in effect until the card refreshers (start of the Thief's next turn).

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen

 

Emphasis is mine. Because he mentions heroes only I would say no two giants would not attack eachother with sweep, or any other monster for that matter.


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#3 Husker949

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

The rule book states that no monster can attack another monster, just like no hero can attack another hero, unless otherwise stated.



#4 Robin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

But when an effect or attack states that all "figures" are affected or attacked, the expression includes both heroes and monsters.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
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#5 AltWren

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:02 PM

But when an effect or attack states that all "figures" are affected or attacked, the expression includes both heroes and monsters.

 

Yeah, that's my thought as well.  And sweep does say figures.



#6 Steve-O

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:30 PM

The rule book states that no monster can attack another monster, just like no hero can attack another hero, unless otherwise stated.

 

You can't target another monster (hero) with a monster's (hero's) attack.  You can still affect friendly figures if the attack affects the spaces they occupy.  Figures is figures, but the target space must contain an enemy figure.

 

In the case of Sweep, there is no target space.  Everyone is affected but no one is targeted.



#7 Robin

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:42 AM

Could one say that Sweep is not an "attack" from a technical point of view, thus no figure can be "targeted" - and thus all figures can only be "affected"?


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#8 Steve-O

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:04 AM

Could one say that Sweep is not an "attack" from a technical point of view, thus no figure can be "targeted" - and thus all figures can only be "affected"?

 

No, Sweep is definitely an attack.  Here's the exact wording:

 

"-> Sweep: Perform an attack.  This attack affects each figure within range of this monster's attack.  Each figure rolls defense dice separately."

 

If Sweep weren't an attack, then we would lose the ability to infer all of the general attack rules when trying to use the ability.  We'd have to ask ourselves what dice does the giant roll?  Can he spend surges?  etc.

 

Sweep is still an attack, but it's a special attack that has no target.  Alternatively, if you prefer, you could say that the giant needs to declare one target to get the attack rolling, per normal attack rules, (which would have to be a hero, natch) and then the attack affects everyone in range.  In other words, the Giant couldn't use Sweep without at least one hero in range.  That's an inference that I don't necessarily agree with myself, but I don't know why the Giant would be Sweeping in the first place if there weren't at least one hero to hit.

 

Edit: Although, come to think of it, FFG's answer as provided by Rags up above categorically declares that there is no target.  If at least one hero needed to be a target, then the answer wold have ot be "no, unless the hero in question is in the target space."  Justin's answer definitely implies there is no target space for Sweep.


Edited by Steve-O, 15 August 2013 - 06:07 AM.

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#9 Husker949

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:27 AM

I stand corrected, I don't own the CK so sweep is an ability that is unknown to me. Had I seen the wording on the card I would have answered differently.



#10 Robin

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:05 PM

Steve-O: thank you!  :)

As usual, a big show of your mastery of the rules.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton




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