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The role of the Tactical Marine?


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#61 DavinHeracles

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

It can be sometimes. My GM started us out with 15 renown on the basis that we were Space Marines in the Deathwath. We had to have been known for something. Also helps when you start out as a Tyrannic War Vet and get an additional d10 renown. I miss that guy. His heroic sacrifive is an awsome memory. Sucked that it came so early but my librarian is so much more awsome.

Edited by DavinHeracles, 28 July 2014 - 02:30 PM.


#62 Lord Master Igneus

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 11:00 AM

 

... Never played Deathwatch until now so no idea how good stuff that does stuff to Hordes is because I've never seen hordes in action

 

Trust me, Horde-busting is a Devastator's primary purpose in life. Sure, once in a while you may need them to introduce a high-priority objective to Mr. Lascannon, but on a typical mission (especially at lower Ranks), de-Magintuding Hordes is Job 1.

 

 

This is incredibly true, Devastators with Heavy Bolters will utterly devastate hordes. Its probably one of the more straightforward specialties you can take, most of the time you'll be pointing at things and shooting them. You'll probably be able to have the most wounds compared to any other specialties as well.



#63 Lord Master Igneus

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 11:07 AM

 

 

 

I really meant that they are the ultimate clean slate.  With all the myriad Skills and Talents, coupled with Chapter Traits, one can craft and built a Career Path to becoming whatever one wishes their Marine to ultimately become.  A Close Quarters Enthusiast or Ranged Marksman, a Lore, Tech or Medic Assistant/Backup or Driver/Pilot or whatever.  They have the fewest restrictions compared to the other "Specialist" Classes.

 

That's my plan. I'm making a tactical marine that's focusing on driving atm (ravenwing veteran), so I've invested everything I had into being a good driver (maxed out agility) and shooter (maxed out BS, Bolter Mastery). I was just thinking about what role to fill when I'm not driving/shooting from a bike, and I was a bit worried that I'd be slightly behind every other party member (ranged focused techmarine, devastator, assault marine and apothecary).

 

 

 

With its flexibility and general lack of restrictions (having access to most Talents and Skills that Devs and Assault do) I've always thought about the Tactical similarly.

That sounds overly optimistic. Tacticals get most useful shooting Talents and barely anything for melee (and what they do get for melee is ridiculously late in the ranks). They are no less restricted than any other Specialty in the game, and trying to build them into anything other than a straight-up shooter with some command stuff on the side will require relying heavily on Chapter advances, advanced Specialties, Deeds and Honors.

 

 

And I know Rites of Battle was from a while ago, but I thought the Ultra Mk.IX rifle was pretty much the top of the line for sniper rifles in Deathwatch. Even though it doesn't get bonuses for being a Bolter.

Not by a long shot. (Pun not intended).

 

Going by errata stats:

 

Stalker Bolter: Range 200m Damage d10+9 Pen 4 Clip 24 Reload Full Qualities: Accurate, Tearing

Ultra Rifle: Range 250m Damage d10+4 Pen 2 Clip 5 Reload Full Qualities: Accurate, Felling (1), Toxic

 

Slightly better range, abysmal ammo capacity, worse Penetration. Felling will about make up for the damage difference, but only against enemies that have Unnatural Toughness (admittedly, quite a lot in DW, but it will still rarely come out on top damage-wise). Toxic is rather weak considering it doesn't affect Tyranids and Daemons at all and it's almost impossible for enemy Astartes to fail the roll.

 

That's all before you even consider all the awesome kinds of ammo you can put in Stalker:

 

Stalker - absolutely silent with no drawbacks

Kraken - up that range to 300m, blowing Ultra out of the water, and increase the Pen to 8 (what power armor again?)

Hellfire - ignore Natural Armor altogether (Tyranids can suck it!) and inflict Righteous Fury on 9 and 10

Vengeance - Pen 9 and Felling (1), need I say more?

Witch Bolts - mess up psykers and daemons something fierce.

 

Combine it with Bolter Mastery and that free clip of special ammo Tacmarines get for free each mission, and it's not even a competition, Stalker Bolter is clearly the superior sniping implement for Tacticals (and for anyone else, for that matter).

 

 

On that note if you're a Raptor you are practically built for sniping, and with your chapter trapping... dear god you'll be the best possible sniper.



#64 Dr. Quinn

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:29 PM

Yep, as has been indicated, I see tac marines as the "I cover up the weaknesses of my team" role.

Are they better at demagging hordes than the devastator?  Nope, but they're not much worse.

Are they better at melee than the devastator?  You bet.

Are they as survivable and versatile in weaponry as the techmarine?  Nope, but they're not much worse.

Are they better at command than the techmarine?  You bet.

Are they better than the assault marine at melee?  Nope, but they're not *as* much worse as everyone else.

Are they better at ranged combat than the assault marine?  Oh, you bet.

Are they better at healing than the apothecary?  Not even close, no one can even fill that role, it's bad.

Are they better at *everything else* than the apothecary?  OMG yes.  Once again, it's bad.

And finally, let's mention the librarian as little as possible, everyone knows they're broken and all kinds of OP.

 

So if you have someone who is the second best at everything, they have a place on any team.  You could have a team of all tactical marines, and they would do just fine.  The same is not true of anything else except Librarians, and we don't talk about them.  In any given situation, they will never be as *disadvantaged* by the circumstances as others, which counts for a lot.  If I was designing the perfect team, I would take one of every class, to be sure, but if I was missing any roles, I would feel totally comfortable with replacing them by doubling up or tripling up on tactical marines.

 

In terms of the sniper role, I don't know, I feel like the devastator or techmarine specialties could also fill that role, I don't think it's uniquely suited to tac marines.  However, if you're talking about the ultimate one man army, killmarine style, there is no doubt that tac marines are it, as there is no one who leaves less slack to be picked up by their teammates.



#65 Lord Master Igneus

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:30 AM

Yep, as has been indicated, I see tac marines as the "I cover up the weaknesses of my team" role.

Are they better at demagging hordes than the devastator?  Nope, but they're not much worse.

Are they better at melee than the devastator?  You bet.

Are they as survivable and versatile in weaponry as the techmarine?  Nope, but they're not much worse.

Are they better at command than the techmarine?  You bet.

Are they better than the assault marine at melee?  Nope, but they're not *as* much worse as everyone else.

Are they better at ranged combat than the assault marine?  Oh, you bet.

Are they better at healing than the apothecary?  Not even close, no one can even fill that role, it's bad.

Are they better at *everything else* than the apothecary?  OMG yes.  Once again, it's bad.

And finally, let's mention the librarian as little as possible, everyone knows they're broken and all kinds of OP.

 

So if you have someone who is the second best at everything, they have a place on any team.  You could have a team of all tactical marines, and they would do just fine.  The same is not true of anything else except Librarians, and we don't talk about them.  In any given situation, they will never be as *disadvantaged* by the circumstances as others, which counts for a lot.  If I was designing the perfect team, I would take one of every class, to be sure, but if I was missing any roles, I would feel totally comfortable with replacing them by doubling up or tripling up on tactical marines.

 

In terms of the sniper role, I don't know, I feel like the devastator or techmarine specialties could also fill that role, I don't think it's uniquely suited to tac marines.  However, if you're talking about the ultimate one man army, killmarine style, there is no doubt that tac marines are it, as there is no one who leaves less slack to be picked up by their teammates.

 

An important thing to consider is the chapter of said Tac. Marine, and unless you're a wolf-scout, you'll probably want to have your fellowship as high as possible before spending XP on fellowship improvement if you plan on being the leader or using squad mode a lot. Their solo and squad mode abilities are very useful and can impact your playstyle too. I'd suggest looking to see if your choices for chapter have advancements and abilities that make them better in ranged or melee combat, or another role. Once you've got that figured out I'd recommend leaning a bit towards melee or ranged depending on how suited you are for whichever type of combat.






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