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What is the point of psychic buff powers?


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#1 Ricter

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

I'm entirely new to Deathwatch and trying to figure out the purpose of the psychic "buff" powers, i.e. powers that improve your combat effectiveness, particular the ones that improve your ability in melee combat.  They take a half action to manifest, and a half action to sustain as far as I understand.  Which means that, if you do not start your turn in melee range, you cannot attack and have your psychic power active, since it would take a minimum of three actions (one to manifest/sustain, one to attack, one to move) to actually have your power active and hit someone.

 

So then what's the point?  I suppose you can manifest and hope someone moves next to you, but that seems very counter-intuitive compared to how librarians are portrayed.  I'm coming from other RPGs and tabletop 40k, where it is very possible to have buffs "going".  In tabletop, for example, you can move, manifest and attack all in the same turn.  The only other situation I can think of is using them in a protracted melee engagement, but it seems very limited use.



#2 Korvis

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

I don't play a Psyker FWIW, but it would appear to me that the "buff" to enhance would be most effective when one is already engaged in Melee, or surrounded by a Horde, then the enhancement would come into its own with no need to move.  Cast it, then the next turn.....b00m, or in anticipation of a Horde surrounding you, cast so that the next turn...b00m.....



#3 Morangias

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 03:41 PM

Basically, FFG tried to limit the power of Psykers seriously in Deathwatch, and ended up with the Half Action sustaining which simply makes some powers useless but doesn't really do much to rein psykers in when Smites start flying and force swords start swinging. It seems they even noticed at some point what poor hack job they did, seeing as they then gave Librarians Preternatural Speed to let them use multiple attacks at all while sustaining.


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#4 Ricter

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:44 PM

Thanks.  Even something like being able to charge as a half action or move as a free action one per turn would make buff powers usable I think, but having to wait to be attacked makes them very limited.



#5 Morangias

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:58 AM

Seriously, nothing will break if you let those buffs be sustained as free action. Well, nothing should break too much, that is ;)


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#6 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:58 AM

I think you're supposed to activate them when you're already in combat, which means that you lose the ability to half-action aim, all-out attack, and multiple attack. Or possibly follow the target and attack immediately if he disengages.

 

1. Be in melee already

2. Activate power

3. Smack enemy

 

Actually at least Iron Arm can be activated as a Reaction, so you could reactivate it every round without bothering to sustain it.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 07 August 2013 - 04:02 AM.


#7 LordBlades

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:52 AM

I think you're supposed to activate them when you're already in combat, which means that you lose the ability to half-action aim, all-out attack, and multiple attack. Or possibly follow the target and attack immediately if he disengages.

 

1. Be in melee already

2. Activate power

3. Smack enemy

 

Actually at least Iron Arm can be activated as a Reaction, so you could reactivate it every round without bothering to sustain it.

Are you sure? The way I'm reading it is that you activate it as a Half Action, then you can use it as a Reaction to get another Parry for as long as you sustain it.

 

As for buffs in general, they're pretty bad IMO :(  especially the melee ones. You can't prebuff because you'll be walking very slowly toward the enemy while taking fire, and if the enemy does the smart thing and disengages you can't really follow him and attack.

 

Also, if you activate a power as Half Action, it counts as your attack for the round, right?



#8 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:38 AM

I read it as either using a HA to prepare it ahead of time or as a Reaction in response to an attack (combined with a Parry)



#9 LordBlades

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

I read it as either using a HA to prepare it ahead of time or as a Reaction in response to an attack (combined with a Parry)


And what would be the advantage of preparing ahead of time if you can just use it as a reaction?

#10 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:13 AM

 

I read it as either using a HA to prepare it ahead of time or as a Reaction in response to an attack (combined with a Parry)


And what would be the advantage of preparing ahead of time if you can just use it as a reaction?

 

 

Because if you use it as a Reaction every turn (that is, don't Sustain it), you have to make a Focus Power Test every turn.

 

Or something like that.



#11 Morangias

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

 

I read it as either using a HA to prepare it ahead of time or as a Reaction in response to an attack (combined with a Parry)


And what would be the advantage of preparing ahead of time if you can just use it as a reaction?

 

Having an extra Reaction is the main reason to activate this power at all, so activating it as a Reaction round after round makes very little sense.


There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

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There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#12 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

 

 

I read it as either using a HA to prepare it ahead of time or as a Reaction in response to an attack (combined with a Parry)


And what would be the advantage of preparing ahead of time if you can just use it as a reaction?

 

Having an extra Reaction is the main reason to activate this power at all, so activating it as a Reaction round after round makes very little sense.

 

 

It also gives you a bonus to Parry.

 

I agree that the solution isn't very good, but it's the only reason I can think of for it to have a Reaction activation time.



#13 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:28 PM

If you use your reaction to hit iron arm then you only have the bonus reaction to use.

If you sustain it, you now have your reaction plus the bonus reaction.



#14 BrotherHuitztli

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:27 PM

In keeping with the OP's question. I only use the buffs when fighting non-horde enemies (Elite and the like). A genestealer for instance is going to attack in melee and if you use the melee buff it will give you a better chance to kill it.



#15 Fgdsfg

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:49 AM

I would simply make it so that you can choose whether to use a Half-Action or Reaction to Sustain a Power. Would make it a more tactical decision and not be so constricting.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 11 October 2013 - 07:49 AM.

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#16 Koma76

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:25 AM

Are Librarians one-man army?

 

Yesterday they took down 5xBarracuda Fighter 1xTigerShark Fighter Bomber 2xTauSubmarines with vertical torpedoes(??)  sitting really comfortably in a Stormraven Gunship (37Armour) while the Librarian was reading porn magazine in the back keeping up a Force Dome(2APxPR).

Ten minutes later I gave up granted for good they successfully massacred the Tau establishment on a 5x5Km island.

 

Am I doing something wrong?


Edited by Koma76, 23 October 2013 - 08:25 AM.


#17 Kshatriya

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:12 AM

Well, allowing things like "vertical torpedoes" might me a problem. ;)

 

The vehicle rules are not great. I had to go out of my way not to blow up a Land Speeder Storm with a horde of Fire Warriors or a stealthsuit. I couldn't even scratch the paint on a Thunderhawk with air superiority fighters' missiles. 

 

I probably wouldn't allow Force Dome to protect a vehicle the character is fully inside. Now, if he's popped out of a tank hatch projecting it, sure. But I wouldn't allow it to be a 100% defense. Are you referring to the Dark Angels power? I'd treat "cannot move" very strictly on that one.


Edited by Kshatriya, 23 October 2013 - 09:13 AM.


#18 Koma76

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:25 AM

Well, allowing things like "vertical torpedoes" might me a problem. ;)

 

the vertical torpedoes was what I tried ( me being the GM ) to bring down the Stormraven.

Nope, Codex Power, Core Rulebook page 194.

Description: Summoning up a shimmering field of force, the Librarian fashions a shell around himself and nearby allies. The shell is a sphere extending up to the radius around, above, and below the Librarian and protecting him and any within it. The shell provides 2 AP x PR against all kinds of ranged attacks or hazardous environmental effects (this additional protection stacks with any worn Armour), even trapping air and water within it. However, it does not stop melee attacks or creatures (friend or foe) that may pass through it without restriction. 



#19 Kshatriya

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

I probably wouldn't let the power dome pass through the armor of a vehicle. As in, you'd need to be somewhat exposed to the outside to keep the power protecting the outside of the vehicle.


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#20 pearldrum1

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:59 AM

This thread made me really dread having to deal with Librarian Powers in the very near future.






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