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Arkham Horror 3.0? Eldritch Horror


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#21 Lilikin

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:53 AM

I already had a moan in the EH forum about this it just seems far to stretched to thin it is one thing to create a game in a different segment say a Lovecraftian all out strategy say like Dust (not that I would be into that) but this seems to be sitting across AH and Elder sign in some slight way.  This is also seems very milky and I am starting to dislike this angle of trajectory from FFG where the games seem to be getting more and more mainstream for the milk drinkers.

 

With this sort of game I am glad that they didn't release TI4 or AH 3.0 would have been rubbish

 

I hope I am wrong!


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Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

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#22 Dr.Faust

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:47 AM

I think bringing in the term milky or milk-toast is a bit of a problem. While I am not one to say that games should be changed simply to be mainstream, the fact is, FFG is a business. They're going to do what they think will net them the most money. As much as I also don't like the fact that AH probably won't be getting any real love for a while because of EH, I also have to simply put it that Arkham Horror is a complicated game. More than that, it's intimidating. I can't get people to play simply because they take one look at the board and are overwhelmed.

 

I was a mainstreamer, who became hooked on AH through Elder Signs. It was by pure chance I learned about it from a video that was playing in my local game shop that I just happened to stop in since they remodeled. Lovecraft couldn't have written the coincidence better himself.

 

So yes, these are Gateway games--pun fully intended. They may be milk-toast to us, but they are what bring in a new generation. My own mother has played Elder Signs with me twice and has hinted she would like to play again. She even has Elder Signs: Omens on her Kindle now. So don't diss the milky games because they are mainstream-leaning. Instead, just leave them be to do their intended job--that is, to bring in new blood for our great overlords.

 

Ia! Yog-Sothoth! Ia! Nyarlathotep!


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#23 subochre

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:42 PM

I sort of agree; gateway games certainly serve a vital role, and if it's something that I'd also enjoy when I don't have several hours for a game of AH, then so much the better.  What concerns me is whether they can produce an adaptation that's lighter and more mainstream but also meaty.  Simple but not simplistic, as it were, since designers too often assume that "accessible" has to mean "watered down."  (I'm not qualified to offer an opinion about ES, but this is a complaint I often hear about it.)  So I definitely see where Lilikin is coming from.  But I guess we'll just have to wait and see...



#24 Dr.Faust

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:11 PM

Elder Signs is very easy with the base game. I've never played the expansion (getting it soon) but it's a type of game that after we learned how to play, my friends and I could beat without even trying. I still have never clocked in a loss while playing with a group. But that got them interested in Arkham Horror (and Call of Cthulhu in general) and they've been fans ever since.

 

Fact is, it really all comes down to personal preference in the end, I think. I would say this in terms of what I understand of the gameplay equivalents:

 

Elder Signs = Candy Land (It's all about luck in the end, with a little reliance on resource management. There is no real strategy layout and it's very easy to win)

 

Arkham Horror = Monopoly (I don't need to tell you about this! XD)

 

Mansions of Madness = Risk (Lot of work, time and effort into a game that won't pay off unless you're a die-hard fan).

 

Eldritch Horror = Ticket to Ride (It FEELS like Ticket to Ride, practically.)



#25 El Mariachi

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:58 PM

Gotta admit, I'm quite excited for it. I admitit looks like it answers a question/fits a niche that perhaps no one asked for but it looks like a good 'sequel' game to Arkham. It looks like it'll scratch the arkham itch more so than Elder Sign and could perhaps be a good option when you don't fancy setting up the behemoth that is Arkham Horror (that's not a dig at Arkham- just a fact. Arkham horror is by far and away my favourite game in my collection).



#26 Dr.Faust

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:56 AM

Agreed, the hardest part about setting up Arkham is knowing you have to put it all away again when you're done! XD


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#27 Lilikin

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:31 AM

I think bringing in the term milky or milk-toast is a bit of a problem. While I am not one to say that games should be changed simply to be mainstream, the fact is, FFG is a business. They're going to do what they think will net them the most money. As much as I also don't like the fact that AH probably won't be getting any real love for a while because of EH, I also have to simply put it that Arkham Horror is a complicated game. More than that, it's intimidating. I can't get people to play simply because they take one look at the board and are overwhelmed.

 

I was a mainstreamer, who became hooked on AH through Elder Signs. It was by pure chance I learned about it from a video that was playing in my local game shop that I just happened to stop in since they remodeled. Lovecraft couldn't have written the coincidence better himself.

 

So yes, these are Gateway games--pun fully intended. They may be milk-toast to us, but they are what bring in a new generation. My own mother has played Elder Signs with me twice and has hinted she would like to play again. She even has Elder Signs: Omens on her Kindle now. So don't diss the milky games because they are mainstream-leaning. Instead, just leave them be to do their intended job--that is, to bring in new blood for our great overlords.

 

Ia! Yog-Sothoth! Ia! Nyarlathotep!

 

I am not really bothered in FFGs business interests, I think we all understand why they have done it my point about the milk drinkers was that in this sense I WILL not be buying this game because it doesn't suit me.  It seems to me all game manufactures in the board and computer game industry always drive to the main stream as it's a more surefire way to get profits but it just means that I am out if that's the case and another little manufacture will pop up I will buy their games.

 

Lilikin


Edited by Lilikin, 10 August 2013 - 05:33 AM.

Wait lassie what's that noise? A few people telling FFG on a forum how to make their own games, well lassie that told them

I have three more ships than you so my opinion is twice as valid!!

#28 amikezor

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:32 AM

Hi all,

 

I am very surprised that many AH addicts enjoyed Elder Sign (which I personnaly found hyper-boring) but did not enjoy the MoM experience (which I did obviously). Reciprocally, and that is an interesting point, in the MoM community, many players did not enjoyed AH. Intriguing, really.

 

Open question : does the players background (either from rpg-narration games or from strategy-like games) may have something to do with it?

 

As for the new game, EH, nothing new really, except the condition cards, a mix of AH conditions from the Curse of the Pharaoh with the Mom spells. The coherence of the narration in AH was sadly sometimes very poor, so this 'new' game may have something to add to the experience. Time will tell.

 

As a side note, I just got a copy of the original 1987 AH game. Will try it in the coming days. Very exciting. :-)


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#29 spalanzani

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

I wanted to make a point about how I personally find AH very easy and very haphazard, but find I don't have the energy to do that right now. What I will say, though, is I think there are a lot of people who appear to be doing EH a disservice by judging it on the face of a 13 minute video that was more about pretty pictures and animation than about the gameplay. 

 

It does look a lot like AH. I'm not sure if we'll actually be fighting monsters in the same way because the video doesn't seem to mention that, only that there's the possibility we'll be fighting. In fact, I don't think they even show what the monsters will look like. It doesn't tell us anything about Other World encounters, only that Gates will open. Personally, I think there's a lot to be excited about here, not least because of the fact there is an actual investigation to be conducted, and my triumphs will be directly linked to preventing the Ancient One from awakening - it promises to give a level of story that AH really makes you work for. Don't get me wrong, AH is in my top 5, but it is rather abstract. 

 

Basically, all we know is we'll be moving around the board; we'll be having encounters much like we do in AH; Conditions will be happening; and there will be a mythos phase where bad stuff happens much like in AH. It seems to me that most of the negativity about this game is grounded in the rulebook being 16 pages long, which is leading everyone to assume that it will be much much simpler than AH. Whose rulebook itself is only 24 pages.

 

EDIT - Oh, and I love ES, for what it's worth  :P


Edited by spalanzani, 12 August 2013 - 08:43 AM.

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#30 xuzuthor

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:13 AM

One reason may be that both Elder Sign and Arkham Horror are fully cooperative.



#31 Dr.Faust

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

I stil haven't played MoM mostly because I have no group to play with. My friends know of my madness for Lovecraft and so probably are tired of the theme! XD I still want to play it, mind you, but I want to finish getting the expansions for Elder Signs and Arkham Horror (I only have Miskatonic and Unseen Forces left to buy) before I start into Mansions.

 

As for the new game, I am willing to give it a shot, I really am. I just worry that it's going to mean the end of any attention Arkham Horror the main game receives. I don't mind making homebrew stuff, but I am a collector when it comes to games, and I love buying expansions for the same of completionism. There are still stories to be told in Arkham and in the Arkham (I'm assuming it's Arkham's) museum.


Edited by Dr.Faust, 13 August 2013 - 02:59 PM.

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#32 klaymen_sk

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:41 AM

I am very surprised that many AH addicts enjoyed Elder Sign (which I personnaly found hyper-boring) but did not enjoy the MoM experience (which I did obviously). Reciprocally, and that is an interesting point, in the MoM community, many players did not enjoyed AH. Intriguing, really.

 

Open question : does the players background (either from rpg-narration games or from strategy-like games) may have something to do with it?

 

I can speak only for myself, but I have played (and enjoyed) RPG games and that is probably the reason why I can't stand MoM. While it tries to be narrative and stuff, but against proper RPGs it falls flat in probably every aspect - narrative, possibilities and even setup time. Not to mention the atrocious combat system, though I've heard that it was fixed in the last big expansion. It is one of the reasons why Konieczka's name on a game box makes me wary.


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#33 suicidepuppet

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:10 PM

 

Jake, is it an impression of mine or are you talking about a massive conversion to adapt the new game to Arkham?

 

You know me too well, Julia. :)

 

I'd need to see the rules and the cards, but I suspect that this won't be too difficult to convert. The encounters are already written, so it should be a case of transferring the text and making logical choices for the skill tests. 

 

Some of the condition flips should be relatively easy to implement. For instance, if you are already Cursed and you get another curse, draw from the twice-cursed pile. Likewise for Blessing, etc. I've some ideas for the others too.

 

The OWs can probably be transferred to OW cards of the relevant colour. Hopefully I can finish up Forbidden Lore in time to convert Eldritch Horror.

 

 

If you would like to get started on theory man download the Agents of SMERSH rulebook. Somebody called that one dead on. EH is a junior version of SMERSH (or regular SMERSH without the massive encounter book and just using encounter cards).

 

I just watched two different sets of videos and compared it to the overview of EH from GenCon and I think you'll see what I mean.

 

Let me know if you need linkage.
 



#34 The Professor

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:31 AM

to Dr. Faust:  Which is why I never take my board down ~ it's a permanent fixture in the game room!


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#35 Dr.Faust

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:48 AM

to Dr. Faust:  Which is why I never take my board down ~ it's a permanent fixture in the game room!

 

I'm half tempted to buy a second base game, find a table with a removable glass top and put the new board in there. Voila! A decorative centerpiece and a brilliant means of preserving the board!



#36 The Professor

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

I like the way you think.  Last year at this time, I had spent several weeks combing catalogs and antique shops looking for a large table to accommodate a permanent Arkham Horror location in the "Game Room."  Amazingly, once you went over the standard 6' table, the price jumped-up exponentially.  So, I did what any gamer with somewhat limited handyman skills would do...I pulled-up You Tube and found a video on building tables and then went off to Home Depot.  This could be a comedic story in itself (think of the appearnce conveyed by astronauts or outer space adventurers when they first set foot on an alien planet...yeah, that's me at Home Depot!), but I'll stick to describing the project. 

 

For the cost less than $75 ($20 for the foldable legs; $40 for the 4' x 8' plywood, and they even cut two pieces for free!; $9 for primer, stain, and polyurethane; and $4 for a brush) and a few hours to assemble and periodically coat with polyurethane, I have a good-looking 3' x 7' table + a 1' x 7' shelf for my Crafthulhu pieces!


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#37 Dr.Faust

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 03:49 PM

That sounds like an excellent thing to have handy! Glass top or not! XD

 

I could probably put it into the garage, actually--it would make for good atmosphere what with the poor lighting and dirt in the corners! 8D






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