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FSE: Power: Sense


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#1 Tenrousei

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:54 AM

My question is kind of academic, but I figured I'd post it anyway.  Also I am currently Away From Book (AFB).

 

If I am reading it correctly, the leftside Control ability allows you to invest your Force Die (FD) to 1/round upgrade to difficulty of the next attack/check against you by one

 

Upgrade and strength allow the ability to be used 2/round with 2 upgrades.

 

I am assuming that this is a per FD benefit, meaning that if the second Control ability is purchased and your second FD invested, then 4/round you can upgrade the difficulty of an incoming attack/check (I'm not sure on the check part, I think it's just for attacks) twice.

 

I also realize this is a base xp investment of 20 (specialization) + 100 (talent tree for Force Rating 2) + 50 (Force Power Sense) = 170 xp, which is a significant investment for anyone, and assumes that you do not increase any of your starting skills.

 

Still it's a nice package.


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#2 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:04 AM

The way I read it, you can invest one and only one Force Die per ability. When maxed out, that invested FD gives you two upgrades to two different rolls. 


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#3 fjw70

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:52 AM

The way I read it, you can invest one and only one Force Die per ability. When maxed out, that invested FD gives you two upgrades to two different rolls.


That's the way I read it too.

#4 Tenrousei

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

 

The way I read it, you can invest one and only one Force Die per ability. When maxed out, that invested FD gives you two upgrades to two different rolls.


That's the way I read it too.

 

 

for clarification, when you say "per ability" you mean tha tyou may only invest one FD per power?  If so, then why would the Sense column include the second Control upgrade which duplicates the stated effect of the first one?

 

I guess my question could be worded in a different way:  Would the Strength and Duration upgrades apply to both Control upgrades or only the first, and if so, why?


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#5 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 01:17 PM

 

 

The way I read it, you can invest one and only one Force Die per ability. When maxed out, that invested FD gives you two upgrades to two different rolls.


That's the way I read it too.

 

 

for clarification, when you say "per ability" you mean tha tyou may only invest one FD per power?  If so, then why would the Sense column include the second Control upgrade which duplicates the stated effect of the first one?

 

I guess my question could be worded in a different way:  Would the Strength and Duration upgrades apply to both Control upgrades or only the first, and if so, why?

 

 

To clarify, I mean you can invest one FD per ongoing effect. So you could tie up a die on the defensive effect and the other (if you have 2 Force) on the offensive one, but not two on the defensive one.


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#6 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

Yeah, you only get to invest a single Force die for each of Sense's Ongoing Effects.  So you wouldn't be able to double-stack the defense boost, even if you have a Force Rating of 2.

 

However, you could have both the defensive and offensive Ongoing Effects active if you have a Force Rating of 2 and dedicate both of your Force dice to them (1 for the defensive effect, 1 for the offensive effect).  It means you won't be able to use any of your other Force powers (unless you drop one of the two), but you'll be pretty badass in a fight, being able to upgrade the difficulty of two different attacks twice, and getting two free upgrades to your attack rolls.  In this respect, that second Control Upgrade helps offset the XP costs involved, since it gives you 2 Proficiency dice to any combat skill (presuming you've got a base Characteristic of 2).  And this would include making an attack with a lightsaber (should your Exile be lucky enough to get their hands on one), which definitely helps offset the "untrained" usage factor.


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#7 Endrik Tenebris

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:32 AM

Here's a predicament, though.  I can see how the Duration upgrade (can do it twice per round) benefits the defensive one (upgrade two incoming attacks) but how does it help the offensive one?  Under what situation will you be able to upgrade two different attacks that you make on one turn?  The only thing I can think of that can give you the opportunity to use two actions (and thus attack twice) is if a Mercenary Soldier gives you a free action with one of their advanced talents.  

This leads me to question something else; When it says you can do it Two times per turn, COULD you upgrade ONE check TWICE?  I'm afraid to ask this, since a fully upgraded one would let you upgrade a single offensive or defensive check FOUR TIMES and that's pretty baller.  But, without this interpretation, I have no idea how that Duration upgrade helps the offensive sense ongoing effect, except for that one instance involving the Merc Soldier.


Edited by Endrik Tenebris, 01 August 2013 - 12:32 AM.

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#8 Rossbert

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:39 AM

I'm inclined to think either it is a forward compatibility thing where there might be options for it later, or it isn't intended to benefit the offensive side.

In the latter case the fact that you have to spend all the XP to get there (including duration feature that doesn't help it at all) is the cost for getting the attack power.


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#9 Tenrousei

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

I see the problem here... I just didn't read the second control upgrade closely enough.  I thought it was a duplicate of the first one.

 

Sorry all!


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#10 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:33 PM

Here's a predicament, though.  I can see how the Duration upgrade (can do it twice per round) benefits the defensive one (upgrade two incoming attacks) but how does it help the offensive one?  Under what situation will you be able to upgrade two different attacks that you make on one turn?  The only thing I can think of that can give you the opportunity to use two actions (and thus attack twice) is if a Mercenary Soldier gives you a free action with one of their advanced talents.  

This leads me to question something else; When it says you can do it Two times per turn, COULD you upgrade ONE check TWICE?  I'm afraid to ask this, since a fully upgraded one would let you upgrade a single offensive or defensive check FOUR TIMES and that's pretty baller.  But, without this interpretation, I have no idea how that Duration upgrade helps the offensive sense ongoing effect, except for that one instance involving the Merc Soldier.

In regards to the "combat sense" Control Upgrade, it's probably something that was either unavoidable (as discussed by Sam Stewart in Episode 15 of the Order 66 podcast regarding that side of the Sense tree), or more likely it's a "forward compatibility" thing as Rossbert suggested, quite possibly to play into how FFG might plan to handle redirected blaster fire when it comes to bringing Jedi to the table, particularly if it's a competitive or opposed roll, which enables the Jedi to get the benefit of their "enhanced Force senses" while actively deflecting blaster fire back into their foes.

 

I made note of this fact, that per RAW by the time a PC got this Control Upgrade, they'd get to boost two attack rolls per round, but generally you can only make one attack per round when I was looking to revamp my Deflect Blasters talent away from the initially published version being a slew of difficulty upgrades into something a little more actively interesting for the player.


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#11 WarrenH

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:56 PM

I made note of this fact, that per RAW by the time a PC got this Control Upgrade, they'd get to boost two attack rolls per round, but generally you can only make one attack per round when I was looking to revamp my Deflect Blasters talent away from the initially published version being a slew of difficulty upgrades into something a little more actively interesting for the player.

 

Interesting, so I had read this differently.  Are we saying that going all the way down the left side of the sense tree lets a character upgrade 2 incoming attack's difficulty by two and 2 outgoing attacks per round by 2?

 

I had initially read both the duration and strength as applying only to the defensive use. 

Edit: Yep I read it that way to when I, you know, use my eyes to read with.


Edited by WarrenH, 01 August 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#12 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

Interesting, so I had read this differently.  Are we saying that going all the way down the left side of the sense tree lets a character upgrade 2 incoming attack's difficulty by two and 2 outgoing attacks per round by 2?

 

I had initially read both the duration and strength as applying only to the defensive use. 

Edit: Yep I read it that way to when I, you know, use my eyes to read with.

Well, to be fair, if you had read the Beta version, the Duration and Strength Upgrades were written in a way to suggest that they did indeed only apply to the defensive OE, particularly in the expanded upgrade descriptions.  I believe even after the core rulebook was published, some folks were certain those two upgrades didn't apply to the offensive OE.


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