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#1 Julia

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:39 PM

Has anyone out of here read this amazing novella written by Stephen King and hosted in the Full dark, no stars anthology? I found it to be an incredible mixture of supernatural horror a la Lovecraft and classic gothic horror stories. Truly enjoyable, even if it's kinda bleak for the content. Curious to hear your takes on this :)


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#2 Dr.Faust

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:35 PM

I might read it--but only because you said it. I don't like King and find he tries too hard to be Lovecraft.

 

"I have my Poe's and my Lovecrafts--but where are my King's?" - What Stephen King SHOULD be saying to himself sometimes.



#3 Julia

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

Really? I've always considered King to be eons better than any Lovecraft. Better stories (a lot more solid and with intrinsic consistency), better writer (Lovecraft always gave me the idea of a dude reading and correcting his work thousands of times, in total paranoia and lack of self confidence), with the ability of describing great characters (both women and men), a greater skill in using the language according to his need and with an entire cosmos in his head. There are some lovecraftian elements here and there, but I guess it's impossible not to find something lovecraftian in horror literature, but generally speaking I'd not say it's a Lovecraftian derivative

May I ask you why are you saying this?


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#4 Dr.Faust

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:00 PM

King's prose and inability to get the point is as bad as LOvecraft. He takes far too long to tell simple stories. The Stand was a great concept, but it was like reading Moby ****.

 

As for Lovecraft stuff, I lean more towards 'It' and 'The Shining'. Both take very Lovecraft concepts from two of Lovecraft's best notions (ancient alien evil and unknown house-horror) and really just pours into them both King's sour prose concerning religion, and all of his typical stereotypes and tropes.

 

The reason I prefer Lovecraft (paranoid writing aside) is that his characters are everymen. Jack Torrence is not an everyman. When I read horror, I want to feel the horror myself--I can't feel it through a person that is just so not 'me'. So really, that part of me not liking King is nitpicking.

 

That's not to say he's not a good writer. I like him better when he does psychological but realistic stories, like Misery and even Carrie. These stories are chillding because it's King doing what he does best--full on character examinations, especially Misery, which really digs deeply into two characters, without having to strain into some hodge-podge of dodgy horror like evil clowns and demon-possessed cars?

 

If King wrote more full on character, psychological thrillers, I likely would have more respect for the man, but as it stands, the bulks of his work is weighed down with meandering prose, stories that are simply too long to remain interested in them and the same characters handed to us time and again with different names.



#5 Julia

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:03 AM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject! I can't say I agree with what you said, but definitely I like Misery a lot more than It. Still, I don't have problems with the length of his books :)


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#6 Tox

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

Has anyone out of here read this amazing novella written by Stephen King and hosted in the Full dark, no stars anthology? I found it to be an incredible mixture of supernatural horror a la Lovecraft and classic gothic horror stories. Truly enjoyable, even if it's kinda bleak for the content. Curious to hear your takes on this :)

 

Nice, I'll download the sample on the kindle and see how it goes from there. I haven't read King for a long time.

 

I used to read a lot of King when I was younger. You can say he was my favorite horror writer. But ultimately every story started to look similar to the others (I have around 20 books by King), and then I discovered Lovecraft and the mythos. Anyway, my favorite King novel is Pet Semetary.



#7 Avi_dreader

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:39 PM

::L

 

King's prose and inability to get the point is as bad as LOvecraft. He takes far too long to tell simple stories. The Stand was a great concept, but it was like reading Moby ****.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject! I can't say I agree with what you said, but definitely I like Misery a lot more than It. Still, I don't have problems with the length of his books :)

::Laughter:: Moby ****?



#8 Dr.Faust

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:05 PM

Moby D----I----C----K

 

THERE! HAH! Censor THAT!


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#9 Julia

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

I was thinking about this one here (last image on the right)


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#10 Tox

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:30 AM

Finished it in a day yesterday, you were right, it was very good and the themes were quite Lovecraftian. Plus, the year (1922) :)



#11 Julia

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:56 AM

Finished it in a day yesterday, you were right, it was very good and the themes were quite Lovecraftian. Plus, the year (1922) :)

Happy you like it :)


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#12 amikezor

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:51 AM



Really? I've always considered King to be eons better than any Lovecraft. [...]

 

Sorry to pop in, but I can't let you write something like this :-)

 

Lovecraft changed the fantastic litterature for ever. There was a before and an after HPL. King did not add anything really new to the fantastic litterature. It is easy and entertaining to read, but you can't compare both authors seriously, can you?

 

Whole PhD thesis are and will be written on HPL because of its amazing intrinsec value. What will remain of King is uncertain, but most likely nothing.

 

Sorry for this post, I meant no offence, but I can't let you writing this. We should focus on objective facts, not on subjective personnal entertainment: you could find King more to your taste, but you cannot compare them on their intrinsec values.  ;)


Edited by amikezor, 30 July 2013 - 05:05 AM.

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#13 amikezor

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:50 AM

Hi Julia,

 

Obviously I over-reacted. But imagine that you read someone writing that the last Batman movie is eons better than any movie by Passolini, or that the cool drawing a dude found on internet is way better than any Cubist painting...

 

So, no offence was meant, but in the sake of objectivism I could not refrain myself to respond. :-)

 

all the best


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#14 Julia

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

No offence taken, but forgive me, this:

 

I can't let you writing this.

 

is totally fascistic. I have the freedom to write any idea I might have (condicio sine qua non I'm not restraining the liberty of others), and no one should *ever* be allowed to write back "I can't let you writing this" (even because it's not English, "I can't let you write this" is the correct form :-p )

 

As for your post, the day you'll come here ready to share your thoughts and accept that others are entitled to have different opinions, we can talk and compare our ideas. Until that day, I won't reply to your posts.

 

Sorry Guillaume, this is not the polite way for civilized people to disagree.


Edited by Julia, 30 July 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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#15 Julia

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:23 PM

Additionally, PhD Thesis were written also on Harry Potter. So, I imagine this automatically implies Harry Potter to be literature, on the same level as Dostoevskij, Proust and, of course, Lovecraft. C'mon


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#16 amikezor

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:36 AM



No offence taken, but forgive me, this:

 


I can't let you writing this.

 

is totally fascistic.  [...]

 

Sorry Guillaume, this is not the polite way for civilized people to disagree.

 

Did you use the Godwin law intentionaly?

 

Well, you are sure right that my post rude and I should have avoid to post it. You do have the freedom to write whatever you like. I did not mean to stop you post anything, but I felt I had to react to your post --I used an awkard direct translation of an expression that is quite mild in french--. What I meant is "I can't let you write this without poping in" (is it any milder ?).

 

I was not defending 'my' opinion but a general acceptance that is, I think, beyond personnal tastes. A maybe less subjective point to discuss is why Lovecraft is still edited after one century, where most of the authors of the same time are not anymore.

 

Anyway, please ignore my previous post and write whatever you like.  :wacko:

 

warm regards

 

edit: I now remember that my rude post was #666. Did something go wrong by then?

edit 2: This one is funny too: "no one should *ever* be allowed to write back "I can't let you writing this"

". It has an interesting logic loop.


Edited by amikezor, 31 July 2013 - 03:44 AM.

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#17 Julia

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:00 AM

:laughter: sorry, no Godwin law intended, "fascistic" should be read as "totalitarian"

 

My point was that I'm in to talk about "literature", but really there are many elements to be considered before saying something at this or that regard. Lovecraft's ideas are certainly *big*. Does having great ideas imply you're a great writer? I don't think so. There are countless arguments that can be brought to highlight that Lovecraft was not a great writer. Some, for instance could be:

a) most of his stories are too similar (the dream, the unknown, something goes wrong and the protagonist goes insane)

b) there is really no psychological characterization of the characters

c) terrible dialogues (where present)

d) no presence of female characters

e) really no interrogations on the great themes that always have interested literature

f) not to mention that the racism dominant in most of the stories (starting with The Call of Cthulhu and ending up with The Diary of Alonzo Typer) is a huge detriment

This doesn't mean that his achievement in the field were not important. Without him, the fantastic literature would have been totally different nowadays, but again, this doesn't imply he was a great storyteller. In the same way, Mr. XYZ could be the greatest mathematician in the world, but this doesn't imply he's a good teacher.

 

When I read something written by King, I see his limits very well, but at least he tries writing on a broader scale, about different topics (Hearts in Atlantis talks about the Vietnam war, for instance, while other books talk about the melancholia arriving with the passing of years, or are a reflection about the time that passes). Some of his books are crap, some others are good, and generally speaking he suffers from literary elephantiasys, but still, the way he looks at women and try to tell stories both from male and female perspectives, the way he tries to build a background and give a psychological depth to his characters, the way he tries to go deeper in different fields makes him (to me at least) much more an interesting writer to read. So, I believe he's a better author, even HPL's ideas are more innovative.

 

And by saying this, I'm not saying King's the next Nobel prize for literature. And he's not my fave author either.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Edit: grammar


Edited by Julia, 31 July 2013 - 06:28 AM.

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#18 amikezor

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:24 AM

This doesn't mean that his achievement in the field were not important. Without him, the fantastic literature would have been totally different nowadays, but again, this doesn't imply he was a great storyteller. In the same way, Mr. XYZ could be the greatest mathematician in the world, but this doesn't imply he's a good teacher.

 

Happy to conceed that point.

 

Even though his style is sometimes awkward, I found his narrative technics compelling. Some of the short stories are really entertaining to me. I read dozens of King but most of them are already gone from my memories. I had similar experience with thrillers, nice to read but quickly vanishing.

 

Anyway, I am happy to see that we can still discuss about things  :)

 

warm regards


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#19 Tox

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 05:46 AM

Finished reading all of Full Dark. It was a really good reading, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

For anyone who hasn't read it, the stories are classic King, with a mixture of supernatural (few) and horror elements, but they are all bleak, not just 1922. You probably guessed that already by reading the title :P



#20 Julia

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

 

Anyway, I am happy to see that we can still discuss about things  :)

 

Aye, that's the most interesting point in this dialogue, I guess :)

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts about both authors :)


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