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Trap Combos


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#1 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

Hey guys! As far as I know the only limit on how many Overlord Cards you can play is that you cannot play two cards with the same name on the same triggering condition. So this would allow building trap combos, right? For example playing both a Tripwire and a Pit Trap when a hero enters an empty space. Or playing both Explosive Runes and Poison Dart when a hero searches. Would you be able to resolve the first trap before you decide whether or not to play the second?

Is there a difference in game mechanics between traps that say "Play this card when a hero opens a door or searches" and ones that say "Play this card after a hero opens a door or searches"?

Tripwire puts the remaining movement points in the pool to 0, right? It's not stated like that on the card, but it is what I understand based on the clarification in parenthesis (it says he/she can still move taking fatigue or a second move action).

Thanks!



#2 SouLx

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

Yes, as long as it's not the same name on the card you're playing for the trigger, you could play combos. I don't believe playing a card as the Overlord and resolving it then resolves the action you played the card for, which would allow you to then play another card. (On the same trigger.)

 

I believe that 'when a hero does X' implies that you play the card when they announce the action, do what the card tells you to and then they finish the action. With 'after a hero does X' means after the action ends.  (I am not sure, this is my interpretation.)

 

Tripwire forces an end to the move action. When you end a move action, your movement points empty to zero. 


Edited by SouLx, 24 July 2013 - 07:12 PM.


#3 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

Alright, so you're making a distinction between "ending" a move action and "interrupting" a move action. I see it now (and I see it is quite clear in the rules). Very good. I was going to add a further inquiry in this direction but I've just checked the FAQ and it's aswered there.

Your interpretation of "when a hero does X" gets me thinking again on whether he finishes the action if he is defeated by the resolution of the card you played... There was a discussion about that regarding searches specifically. I can't recall what the final answer was.



#4 SouLx

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

Your interpretation of "when a hero does X" gets me thinking again on whether he finishes the action if he is defeated by the resolution of the card you played... There was a discussion about that regarding searches specifically. I can't recall what the final answer was.

 

I believe they still get to finish the action, (In your example, they would still get to draw the search card and finish the search action.) then be defeated. 



#5 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:34 AM

Ok, that's how we would have played it, but then the distinction between "when" and "after" is still not clear in terms of game mechanics; I mean, if they're going to finish the action it's the same to play the card interrupting or after it's completed, at least for searches and door handling.



#6 centralx

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:46 AM

I am kind of new but trying to learn. Can you name the when card you are talking about? For me the effect would really determine if that really mattered. If the card says "when" they open a door take a test, if they fail the door doesn't open. Now if it said fail a test take a fatigue then it probably doesn't matter as much for the when or after, other then sort of creating a moment where things go on a stack. I just can't let go of the magic lingo. 


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#7 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:58 AM

Lol, yeah, I'm trapped in the Magic-kind of analysis too, though some people in these forums would say that FFG is not always so consistent and that we are overthinking. I don't have the cards in front of me now, but I'm quite sure that Poison Dart says "when a hero searches or opens a door" whereas some other higher lvl traps say "after a hero searches or opens a door". Maybe it's just thematic in some sense that doesn't come to mind now, or maybe the ones that say "after" are the ones that are more likely to defeat the hero (Uthuk Demon Trap) and so the "after" is there so you don't need to go through all this discussion about whether the action is completed or not (this should be checked, I don't have the cards in front of me right now). But that discussion has taken place in the forums and I think there was a pretty official answer saying what SouLx said: the action is completed even if the hero is defeated in the process. I'll try to find that later... maybe it was on BGG... not sure... 



#8 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:00 AM

Here it is:http://community.fan...eath/?hl=search

They do complete the search even if defeated in the process.



#9 centralx

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:31 AM

So really it sounds like just use of inconsistent wordings but ya good to know. I find myself over thinking this game all the time. It really is pretty scary simple at the end of the day which is a huge reason why I like it. Helps to get people over the fear of the rules. 


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#10 Kunzite

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:55 AM

All of our group are either ex-magic players or are still playing magic. Sometimes we ALL nit-pick over wording. Since I am the newest to Magic, I find it easier to ignore the inconsistencies. That might be why I am the OL as well. At the end of the day most arguments are ended with my understanding of the rules. And that is why this forum exists. Well, one reason. For us over-thinkers to, as you put it, get over the fear of the rules and play. <3

 

I love questions like yours. Puts my mind at ease.


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#11 Husker949

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:36 AM

Thematically I don't see how it wouldn't fit playing two or three traps on someone from a triggering event. For example, if the hero is walking down the hallway and activated a tripwire, what is to stop the tripwire from being connected to a pit trap causing the hero to become stunned? What would stop the door from being trapped with an explosive rune, and then deliver a poisonous dart to their chest? I have only played in one campaign and I was the overlord for it, but had never even thought about layering traps on the heroes. It is a great idea and I hope that our next OL doesn't try and play that way as well. Really looking forward to trying out the new campaign and characters.


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#12 SouLx

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:57 PM



Thematically I don't see how it wouldn't fit playing two or three traps on someone from a triggering event. For example, if the hero is walking down the hallway and activated a tripwire, what is to stop the tripwire from being connected to a pit trap causing the hero to become stunned? What would stop the door from being trapped with an explosive rune, and then deliver a poisonous dart to their chest? I have only played in one campaign and I was the overlord for it, but had never even thought about layering traps on the heroes. It is a great idea and I hope that our next OL doesn't try and play that way as well. Really looking forward to trying out the new campaign and characters.

 

The only problem with this is that the Tripwire would end the hero's move action, ending the action altogether. The way you play Overlord cards are to declare them, then declare the target, do everything on the card, and discard the used Overlord card.

(I don't believe that the Overlord cards create a stack like in Magic, based on the ruling for Pit Trap. [The effects of Pit Trap are applied immediately.] This doesn't allow the hero to respond with any effects; such as gaining fatigue in some way.)

 

I believe it's really just these two traps that cannot interact. (In my opinion) If the movement action has ended (As a result of this card), it is past the point at which he has entered the empty space. 

 

Once again, this is just how I've interpreted the interaction between these two cards.


Edited by SouLx, 30 July 2013 - 05:05 AM.


#13 Husker949

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:06 AM

Maybe I did choose a bad example with the two traps, but I also got caught up in the moment. Technically the person who's trun it is would determine the order of simultanious events anyway so the hero would undoubtedly choose a combination that would render it not as great for the overlord.



#14 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:10 AM

Well, Web Trap + Pit Trap would have the same problem then, wouldn't it? I guess combos are more on the search/open door side of traps  ;)






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