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3 questions. Mainly Castle Dareon.


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#1 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

Hey guys, a couple of questions came up last night, so here it goes.

 

1) When a hero moves a number of spaces based on his/her Speed does he/she gain movement points? (example: Jain Fairwood's heroic feat allows her to move up to double her Speed and perform and attack). I ask this in regards with its interaction with things like Pit Trap that states that if the hero fails the check and has no movement points left he/she is Stunned (so if I pit trap Jain when she moves her first space using her heroic feat, is she Stunned of does she get to finish her movement? (assuming no mp remain from previous move actions or fatigue taken to move) In case she does get Stunned does she get to attack?)

 

2) This is silly, but I'll ask anyway. In Castle Daeron, you are using fatigue tokens to count how many successful checks Sir Palamon has performed, but they are only counters not actual fatigue, right? What I mean is that if you were to cause Sir Palamon to take fatigue with, say, Sir Alric Farrow's Overpower or Word Of Misery he's going to take wounds instead, not accelerate the hero's victory, am I right?

 

3) In Encounter 1 of Castle Daeron heros get two ways of lighting beacons: with an action or with a stat check that doesn't require an action. So heros in my group were moving next to the beacon, trying the check and then using an action to light it up if the check failed. That's legal, isn't it? Just checking.

 

Thanks guys!



#2 Sym

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

1.) I believe the official ruling on "move up to your speed" isn't that you are gaining movement points, but instead moving a certain number of spaces.  As such, a tripwire or immobilize would not affect a hero moving this way.  A pit trap, however, would stun them no matter where you use it, because they have no movement points to sacrifice (though this would not interrupt the rest of the action).  

 

Another important thing to note about such movement is that unless it specifies that it can be interrupted, you cannot without ending it.  So for instance, Jain's feat allows her to perform the attack at any time--but a knight's movement from advance must end the moment the attack is performed.

 

2.) The fatigue tokens are simply used to denote how many successful rallies that Palamon has performed, and are not actually considered fatigue.

 

3.) Yep, the quick lighting is simply a free action that each hero is allowed to perform once per turn in order to save on actions. Consider the followup special action a failure tax.


Edited by Sym, 21 July 2013 - 06:00 PM.

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#3 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

That's what I thought. Thank you, Sym.



#4 Robin

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:28 PM

1) Movement points are considered as a "reserve". If you spend fatigue to gain some, for an example, you don't have to spend them immediately.

If Jain still has movement points left in her "reserve", so she can loose the 1 MP of the trap, she is not stunned.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#5 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:37 AM

Thanks, Robin. Yes, I was assuming she didn't have any movement points left as I said. She cannot take fatigue to gain movement points as a "response" to the trap, can she? (akin to an instant or activated abiity in MtG) She needs to already have those "in reserve" the moment she enters the empty space were the trap is triggered, right? I think even if the player argues that he/she "was just about to take fatigue in order to gain movement points when the trap was played, and he/she has priority" you could argue that he/she does that after entering the space while the trap triggers as he/she enters the space (though I'm not sure there's any actual timing rules for taking fatigue to gain mp). Luckily I have no one in my gaming group who would be such a d%&$ as to bring up that argument.



#6 Husker949

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

I had a similar situation occur to me in a previous game where the Dwarf/Barb used charge and I played Pit Trap. I was unaware of the differences myself at first, but I have done some reading on them. Like Sym said, there are no movement points in your "movement pool" unless you spent a fatigue to add 1MP to your pool before taking the action. But in the original case, there were no points in the pool, so the stun condition is contracted, but since there is nothing that says Pit Trap interupts the action, you finish out your current action. In the case of the Dwarf, he charged, I played Pit Trap, he moved 3 spaces and hit me, then became stunned. So he still managed for 2 actions and 2 fatigue, to move, attack, remove stun. In terms of usefullness Charge and Jaine's ability work much better when you have the immobilize contidion since you can still take the action since you are not adding movment points into your pool and useing those. Hopefully that didn't sound to bad, typing this at work between projects.



#7 Robin

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:45 AM

She cannot take fatigue to gain movement points as a "response" to the trap, can she? (akin to an instant or activated abiity in MtG) She needs to already have those "in reserve" the moment she enters the empty space were the trap is triggered, right?

Right.

The player may not try to add such "reserve" points after the trap was triggered.

I would not allow him to invoke "simultaneity" to gain fatigue move points when the trap triggers.


An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#8 Robin

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

In terms of usefullness Charge and Jaine's ability work much better when you have the immobilize contidion since you can still take the action since you are not adding movment points into your pool and useing those.

Yes. This is discussed in the BGG wiki : 

 

Q: Immobilize card says it only prevents hero from using Move action or fatigue to generate movement points. I'm aware it also stops movement action if someone gets immobilized during it's duration.
Does Immobilize stop movement gained from other abilities that grand movement points or let hero move up to speed?
 
A: Immobilize only prevents move actions and suffering fatigue. Gaining movement points while immobilized through some other means unrelated to a move action or suffering fatigue, "moving up to your speed" as the result of an ability, or being removed from the map and placed elsewhere is all allowed with immobilize as written. 
 

An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.
G. K. Chesterton

#9 SouLx

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

She cannot take fatigue to gain movement points as a "response" to the trap, can she?

 

This is correct, she cannot. 
In case anyone argues against you, in the Descent Second Edition FAQ http://www.fantasyfl...on FAQ_v1.2.pdf

 on page 4 (Overlord Cards) states:

"Q: Can a hero suffer fatigue to gain a movement point in response to a "Pit Trap" in order to avoid being stunned?

 

A: No, the effects of "Pit Trap" are applied immediately."


Edited by SouLx, 24 July 2013 - 02:17 AM.

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#10 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:37 PM

Right! I had completely forgotten there was an official ruling on that in the FAQ :wacko: . Thanks!

Also thanks for bringing up the Charge example, I haven't faced it yet but I sure will as there's a Berserker in my group.



#11 Knightrain88

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:11 PM

I have to say that I was not as confused by this card as you seem to have been.

 

The way that I interpreted it is that the Hero has "Movement Points" equal to his or her Speed stat available for each Move Action.  If the OL drops a Pit Trap on Grisban on Step 3 of his Move Action he would be Stunned if he missed the Test.  If the OL drops a Pit Trap on Ashrian on Step 4 of her Move Action and she fails the Test she would not be Stunned since she still has one "Movement Point" available.

 

I may be wrong, but that's how I read it.


"I've a great respect for brains.  I rather wish I had some, myself."

 - Lord Tolloller, Iolanthe -


#12 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

  Hi, Knightrain88. You are right, indeed, but you're only considering the case of Move Actions. In my original question, I was asking about other ways of moving that heroes have at their disposal and which are not Move Actions. A prime example is Jain Fairwood's Heroic Feat. Given that the Feat doesn't grant her any movement points, the OL could throw the Pit Trap at her during any step of the movement resulting from the resolution of the Feat and she would get Stunned if she where to fail the test (she would still complete the movement and attack provided by her Feat, though, as they do not constitute new actions). 

  If I may, please let me emphasize the importance of the Movement Points (MPs) Pool mechanic mentioned by Robin and Husker949. I mention this as heroes are allowed to, for example, declare 2 Move Actions at the same time, or take multiple fatigue tokens to gain MPs, perhaps in addition to declaring a Move Action or even in the middle of performing such a Move Action, in order to avoid being Stunned by the Pit Trap (and they will as they learn to fear the Pit Trap, which I've found is more effective as a psychological weapon than it could ever be as a trap, causing tons of extra fatigue to be taken preemptively).


Edited by Aidyzappiar, 01 July 2014 - 09:22 AM.


#13 Zaltyre

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

...heroes are allowed to, for example, declare 2 Move Actions at the same time, of take multiple fatigue tokens to gain MPs, perhaps in addition to declaring a Move Action or even in the middle of performing such a Move Action, in order to avoid being Stunned by the Pit Trap (and they will as they learn to fear the Pit Trap, which I've found is more effective as a psychological weapon than it could ever be as a trap, causing tons of extra fatigue to be taken preemptively).

True, but that leaves heroes much more susceptible to Immobilize (I know this doesn't apply to Jain's heroic feat, but to situations where a hero will take extra move actions or suffer fatigues to avoid "Pit Trap.")



#14 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 09:27 AM

It's not the greatest idea for the heroes, I agree, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by making them more susceptible to Immobilize (I only own Core and LotW, so perhaps I'm missing something in the OL's arsenal that can Immobilize and do it more easily in the aforementioned circumstance).



#15 Zaltyre

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:14 AM

It's not the greatest idea for the heroes, I agree, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by making them more susceptible to Immobilize (I only own Core and LotW, so perhaps I'm missing something in the OL's arsenal that can Immobilize and do it more easily in the aforementioned circumstance).

Because becoming immobilized during a move action ends that move action, if a hero has taken both move actions together as a precaution to avoid being stunned by "pit trap", and then gets immobilized (say, by "web trap") he would lose all remaining movement points from BOTH move actions, essentially wasting his turn.



#16 Aidyzappiar

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

You're absolutely right. They aren't more susceptible (as in having worse chances against an immobilization attempt), but they do have more to lose if Immobilized. I used to play Saboteur, so I should have known what you meant :P ; my mistake.






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