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PCs with a Fear Rating vs. Fear Checks


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#41 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:25 AM

Daemonic "Fear" is not actually just fear; it is the presence of something That Should Not Be, sanity-destroying Cthulhuesque stuff.

 

It's not just because they're oooh! oooh! scaaaary!

 

Anyway being scary yourself does not make you immune to fear. Why should it?



#42 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:27 AM

Exactly. But, within the canon of game, it would be if it's not immune to Fear. I haven't seen the profile so I'm not sure. It'd be rollling with a -30 as well, rather than the -20 that a PC would roll for Fear 4.

Tyranids are immune to fear, I believe, across the board.

Wait -- aren't creatures with the Daemonic Trait as well?



#43 BrotharTearer

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:39 AM

 

Exactly. But, within the canon of game, it would be if it's not immune to Fear. I haven't seen the profile so I'm not sure. It'd be rollling with a -30 as well, rather than the -20 that a PC would roll for Fear 4.

Tyranids are immune to fear, I believe, across the board.

Wait -- aren't creatures with the Daemonic Trait as well?

 

Can't remember the specifics on tyranids and fearless, but the daemonic trait doesn't grant fearlessness. Daemons in general are fearless though whatwith From Beyond available and so on. Can't think of a daemon statup that's not immune to fear.



#44 Apache

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:16 AM

Daemonic "Fear" is not actually just fear; it is the presence of something That Should Not Be, sanity-destroying Cthulhuesque stuff.

 

It's not just because they're oooh! oooh! scaaaary!

 

Anyway being scary yourself does not make you immune to fear. Why should it?

 

I agree with you fully on the meta-mechanics of Fear. Unfortunately, the game mechanics do not represent that. Or fail to adequately state their representation of the meta-mechanics.



#45 BrotharTearer

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

 

Daemonic "Fear" is not actually just fear; it is the presence of something That Should Not Be, sanity-destroying Cthulhuesque stuff.

 

It's not just because they're oooh! oooh! scaaaary!

 

Anyway being scary yourself does not make you immune to fear. Why should it?

 

I agree with you fully on the meta-mechanics of Fear. Unfortunately, the game mechanics do not represent that. Or fail to adequately state their representation of the meta-mechanics.

 

 

And that still has no bearing on what you're proposing regarding 'fear rating gives you fearlessness'.



#46 Apache

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

That's not what I've propsed at all; far from it. Please re-read.



#47 BrotharTearer

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

That's not what I've propsed at all; far from it. Please re-read.

 

Sure it is, though it was more poor choice of words on my part. Fear rating gives you fearlessness vs. natural stuff of equal or lesser fear rating than you possess (i.e. free semi-Jaded). I'll even quote what you proposed.

 

 

 

Fear Ratings

 

Any PC with an active Fear Rating is immune to the effects of Fear from any mortal creature with a Fear Rating equal to or lesser than their own. They are however, still affected by Fear from Psychic events, Daemons and truly disturbing scenes as the GM sees fit.


#48 Apache

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:22 PM

Yes; which is far from Fearlessness. And also, there's an added caveat for the GM. I don't really see anything wrong with the ruling.

 

I think the main problem is the range of the sliding scale, with the mechanics for Barry vs. a Pyrovore working the same for each. Barry is on the scale because he has a gammy eye and people say he acts a bit rapey; he's loyal, but gets angry if you don't file stuff away properly. We keep him around because he works well as a desk clerk and spymaster. The Pyrovore is on the scale, only one stage higher than Barry, because it's an enourmous fire-breathing, flesh-eating, acid-blooded alien that wants to wipe out humanity. Yet, when they face off, they both have to roll Fear against each other. Barry gets a -10 to the roll.

 

The Pyrovore at this point has a 65% chance of failing. If it fails, it has a 14.8% of being on -10 for the Encounter, a 7.4% of being on -20 for the Encounter and a 20.35% of being rendered useless for the rest of the fight, including a 3.7% chance of attacking itself for 1d5+1 rounds as well as being -20 to all actions for the rest of the Encounter. Barry, on the other hand, has exactly the same odds becuse of his higher Willpower but because he is Touched by the Fates, he can add 10 to his Fear check or reroll if he fails.

 

But also, you go on about adversaries and what it is to be on. Every encounter could be classed as an event, every PC, DPC and NPC can be classed as an adversary. An adversary is an enemy or opponent. In a game like Black Crusade, everyone is an enemy or opponent to some degree. You don't start out being friends with the universe and then labeling your enemies. Some characters may, but they don't last long. A player group isn't a fellowship of mates, it's a group of adversaries, united for a common cause. A PC should always have a game-plan to kill off all the other PCs; TPK during your own Apotheosis is the best possible way to go. Black Crusade is a game of Paranoia in the 41st millenium; with Chaos and the Chaos Gods playing the part of Friend Computer.



#49 Apache

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

p.s. This, in no way, de-glorifies the great master, Friend Computer. Friend Computer is the one and only. Friend Computer is my friend. I am happy.



#50 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:55 AM

Pyrovore is a bad example sin ce, at least by Deathwatch rules, Tyranids are immune to fear.

 

EDIT: I looked at the book and I was wrong. That's kind of goofy.



#51 Apache

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:56 AM

I wasn't sure about that myself. I'm not sure where the Tyranid Trait is specified though to check. I didn't think so because a few of them have the Fearless Talent. That would be useless if they were naturally immune to fear.


Edited by Apache, 30 July 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#52 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:15 AM

I wasn't sure about that myself. I'm not sure where the Tyranid Trait is specified though to check. I didn't think so because a few of them have the Fearless Talent. That would be useless if they were naturally immune to fear.

 

I know the confusion. I think they're fearless when they're in synapse range.



#53 Karnage1992

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:36 PM

What I have done in my game is have the difference in fear rating make the test easier.
For example

Tharn (a psychotic Khornate PC in my game) has fear 4
He directly viewed the warp as reality broke around him, Fear 4 test
Seeing as his fear rating is the same as the events he takes an unmodified fear test as opposed to his heretek friend who takes -30.
Tharn will still take fear checks as normal but due to his own bad-assery has a better chance of passing than say a minion, this I think also helps balance characters against psykers who have an insane WP most of the time anyway.

#54 Blood Pact

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:32 PM

Again, just because your appearance change to resemble something scary as **** doesn't stop you from being scared as **** by scary stuff. A fear rating doesn't imply you became less sensitive to fear inducing things. It's just not logical on any level. Look at yourself in a mirror and you'll probably freak out too (probably even more if you weren't expecting it).

 

It's a different game of course, but to reinforce his point, in Deathwatch a White Scar can take a trophy rack. If he hands a trophy of some kind on that rack, he then causes Fear in those enemies of the same allegiance as the one he took the trophy from.

 

Which is the kind of thing that in no way should grand immunity to fear.



#55 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:55 PM

At the risk of minorly necroing, doesn't being able to reduce the Shock Table result by your Infamy make you resistant to fear enough?

 

If you have WP50 and Infamy 50, the average effect from a Bloodthirster on the base roll is 5 degrees of failure (since WP is reduced effectively to 0 by Fear (4) and Daemonic Presence), 50 + 50 for DoF on the Shock Table - 50 from Infamy = you reel with shock and back away.

 

That's a Bloodthirster, mind you.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 30 November 2013 - 07:04 PM.


#56 Keffisch

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:45 AM

To me that fits perfectly, an insane deranged group of Heretics are shocked and do what any living/thinking being would when seeing a Khornate avatar of war - back away. :)



#57 Annaamarth

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 08:27 PM

You have a sentient light bulb.  It emits light, constantly and continuously at intensity x.  Does its light affect the area around it to its own perception?  No, because the light is always on and always there, and there is therefore never an absence of light to perceive.

 

The light bulb encounters a sentient rock, which emits no light.  It perceives the light coming from the sentient light bulb at a certain intensity, modified by distance.

 

You have a second, nonsentient light bulb.  It also emits light at intensity x.  The paths between these two lightbulbs is empty.

 

Does the second light bulb increase the intensity of the light around the first light bulb?  Physics says "yes."  Therefore, does the first, sentient light bulb perceive the light of the second lightbulb?  I would say yes, and by the same magnitude of intensity as the rock perceived the sentient light bulbs' light.

 

Now imagine that every 'light' in the above four paragraphs is actually the word 'fear.'  This is how fear works, as written.  I am okay with how fear works, as written.

 

Also, fear bulbs.  Something new for the heretek to design!


Edited by Annaamarth, 09 December 2013 - 08:27 PM.

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#58 Drachdhar

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:39 PM

Meh... Cant be bothered to read all posts...

 

Fear is a very powerful trait. And Psuedo-Daemonhood is just meh, so you look like a Bloodletter which is Fear 2... But due to the wonky Gift you are as scary as a Bloodthirster. Makes perfect sense, not. 

In my group we made Psuedo-Daemonhood Fear 2, but added Daemonic 2 to it instead. Which yes, would make said character count as a daemon in every possible way, an inferior one in some ways though.

 

Also houseruled it so oft encountered sources of Fear stops being so terrifying. And Fear 1 stuff shouldnt bother a heretic anyway, so no rolls at all for Fear 1. If you live in the Vortex, those slightly scary things are not that scary compared to what you see every day. 

 

And if you are bothered with those houserules. First step, get Jaded. That talent makes it so that only warp-horrors and potentially uber scary xenos bother your sensibilities, you know like 'nids, And it is only tier 1, and lots of archtypes even starts with it. Second, get Resistance(Fear)... Also a tier 1 talent. Invest in WP, something I tell people in every 40k RPG. Granted one of my DH players cant make a Fear check no matter how much WP his character happen to have.

 

Or just make your own Gift when you get one and give yourself From Beyond trait. The ones in the core book are horribly boring anyway, especially when compared to what was in Tome of Corruption for WFRP2. Not to mention how few there are, and how useless most of them are. Basically the only good ones are "Eye of Chaos", "Wreathed in Chaos", "Mechanoid" and the ones that give Fear, and maybe "Wings".



#59 Drachdhar

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:44 PM

"Chaos Organ" is pretty neat as well though...

 

//And why cant I edit my own post? Spammage ensues.



#60 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:18 AM

"Just make your own gift," like most "just make up your own rules" variants, isn't really going to work with most GMs. ;)


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