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PCs with a Fear Rating vs. Fear Checks


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#21 Apache

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:07 AM

Ok, thanks. I had never read it like that before. I may have to preceed my house rule with "For characters who do not possess the Jaded Talent, "



#22 Cifer

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:21 AM

*shrug* I don't see how that houserule is really necessary. If I had a car-crash tomorrow and turned into Two-Face's twin brother, would that preclude me from being squicked out by other mutants and the like by itself? I see no reason why it would.

If, on the other hand, I dwelled on my appearance for a while and finally decide that there's no uglier thing than me anyway so screw them, why wouldn't I use that opportunity to buy Jaded? At worst, it costs me 500 XP and sets me back an advance towards a mark.

 

Fear ratings are pretty powerful by themselves and the Gifts that grant them are already among the best. I see no reason to strengthen them further.


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#23 Apache

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:13 AM

Because it's a social tabletop roleplaying game. You come back to the padded room unitl you've ground enough XP to get Jaded. And Fear 4 doesn't mean ugly; it is the scariest of any possible scay things in the mecahnics of the canon of the game. There is nothing you could ever see or hear or experience in the entire universe that could ever be scarier than Fear 4.



#24 Cifer

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:42 AM

What's with the padded room?

You are affected by the fear ratings of adversaries and events (core rules, page 277). As long as you don't consider yourself (or your fellow Heretics) one of the two, you never roll a single fear check against them.


Edited by Cifer, 26 July 2013 - 09:44 AM.


#25 Apache

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:39 AM

Would a Khornate with Hatred (Everyone) and Enemy (Everyone) ever class anyone as not an adversary; would anyone consider him as not an adversary? During a heated argument between lifelong friends, where real strong issues are being discussed; for thepurposes of that conversation or event, they are adversaries. If you have the Conspiracy Theory Disorder, everyone in the universe is an adversary.

 

The guy above said that seeing yourself in a mirror would trigger the effect, and that Frenzy, Fearless and Infernal Will were the only ways feasable to stop it. Hence the padded room, grinding XP to gain the Talents while you character is unplayable in a roleplaying game environment. For the world they live in, they are still fully viable, but for the game they exist in, they are not.



#26 Cifer

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

Okay, at this point, I think I'll quit the discussion. To me, it seems reasonably certain that the Fear rules are not meant to apply to every single being in the galaxy, but to each his own.



#27 htsmithium

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

technically in deathwatch some of the biotitans have a fear rating of 5!  somehow I don't think a hierophant really cares about your pseudo deamon hood lol.


 ding dong mala mortuus est,

quem veteres strigam

impii strigam

ding dong impiorum strigam mortuus est.


#28 Apache

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

Exactly. But, within the canon of game, it would be if it's not immune to Fear. I haven't seen the profile so I'm not sure. It'd be rollling with a -30 as well, rather than the -20 that a PC would roll for Fear 4.



#29 Apache

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

Exactly. But, within the canon of game, it would be if it's not immune to Fear. I haven't seen the profile so I'm not sure. It'd be rollling with a -30 as well, rather than the -20 that a PC would roll for Fear 4.



#30 BrotharTearer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:57 AM

But are the biotitans and hierophants adversaries?



#31 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:39 AM

If you're hostile to them, or have Hatred (Xenos), or if you were wearing symbols or others colours signifing you were opposed to it, or if it was otherwise friendly but you were having a game of chess, then yes they would be an adversary.

 

Edit: But, it is Fearless, and therefore void from this topic. It's good to see there is a Fear 5 though.


Edited by Apache, 27 July 2013 - 06:55 AM.

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#32 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

However, a Pyrovore on the other hand whom itself is a Fear 2, Size 5 Tyranid, could potentially die from shock at seeing my mate Barry with the gammy eye (Fear 1 Minion).



#33 htsmithium

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:06 PM

so after talking it over with my group these are the guidelines that we are going to use for fear ( to be honest we tended to ignore it before)

1. pc's are not affected by another's pc's fear rating unless engaged in combat of some sort w/ each other. ( physical or social)

2. pc's are not affected by minions fear rating, for that matter things that affect willpower either, but that's another topic.

3. jaded makes you immune to fear1 or lower ( excluding unnatural sources), prevents shock on things that are higher.- this is to represent that while bob the jaded marine may not be scared of a rampaging pack of Pyrovore he still is going to be weary of fighting them.

4.having a fear rating does not reduce the amount of fear something else causes a pc or creature, however for every point of size difference the test is modified by 10 up or down as needed.

5. tyranids never suffer fear due to hive mind, if not in contact with hive mind then suffer as normal.

 

the main thinking behind this was that the players are used to each other and various minions so gain immunity to it, unless they are fighting w/ each other. think of it as when a small kid gets a large dog. he is scared whenever it barks at first, however in time he is no longer scared of the dogs bark and may find it comforting. yet would still be scared if the dog attacked him. 

and the size difference is to represent the whole bigger is badder mentality. as I said before ( even if it wasn't fearless lol) a biotitan is not going to be scared of a pc that's less than a tenth of it's size no matter how scary his face is. on the other hand a grot would be even more terrified of said pc.

I hope these help :D


 ding dong mala mortuus est,

quem veteres strigam

impii strigam

ding dong impiorum strigam mortuus est.


#34 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

Haha, I'm proabably the wrong person to speak to about that; all my life I've had Severe Cynaphobia. Not nice!

 

If Jaded makes you immune to all source of non-warpy fear then it should make you immune to the Heirophant et.al. anyway.

 

I understand why you've made a load of those rules; for me, I try totreat PCs on the same level as DPCs and NPCs. I'm not keen on having one rule for one and one for the others. Mooks, yeah sure, they're designed to run away and die for silly reasons and act as general fillers for the butcher's bill; but DPCs, NPCs and PCs should all be singing from the same hymn sheet really. Having the house rule like the one above about game balancing allows you to give a lot more freedom to the players. What they percieve as a benefit to them is also the same benefit to the enemy.

 

The only real house rules we've made for Black Crusade are in the Pseudo-Daemonology guide I wrote:

 

http://apachetech.x1...Daemonology.pdf



#35 BrotharTearer

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

so after talking it over with my group these are the guidelines that we are going to use for fear ( to be honest we tended to ignore it before)

1. pc's are not affected by another's pc's fear rating unless engaged in combat of some sort w/ each other. ( physical or social)

2. pc's are not affected by minions fear rating, for that matter things that affect willpower either, but that's another topic.

3. jaded makes you immune to fear1 or lower ( excluding unnatural sources), prevents shock on things that are higher.- this is to represent that while bob the jaded marine may not be scared of a rampaging pack of Pyrovore he still is going to be weary of fighting them.

4.having a fear rating does not reduce the amount of fear something else causes a pc or creature, however for every point of size difference the test is modified by 10 up or down as needed.

5. tyranids never suffer fear due to hive mind, if not in contact with hive mind then suffer as normal.

 

1&2: If they're not adversaries (which allies generally aren't, because then they wouldn't be allies), fear doesn't apply. In other words, these two are moot.

3. Jaded makes you immune to all non-warp Fear, i.e. Fear 1-4 from "natural" sources. Tyranids = applies. Daemons = doesn't apply.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 27 July 2013 - 03:48 PM.


#36 htsmithium

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

that's why I stated " unless engaged in combat w/ each other" which would make them adversaries right?

I will admit that line should have been in #2 as well so that is my bad.

 

As for jaded, my group and I all believe that it is to powerful for just a tier 1 talent. seriously, the way it's written your guy can be sitting in the path of a baneblade as the systems sun goes supernova  and just shrugs his shoulders with a meh because they all count as "natural"

as I said this is not so much a fear test at this point as the subconscious going" you may want to slow down a bit there bob"


 ding dong mala mortuus est,

quem veteres strigam

impii strigam

ding dong impiorum strigam mortuus est.


#37 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:42 PM

that's why I stated " unless engaged in combat w/ each other" which would make them adversaries right?

 

 Yes, as would engaging in any competitive activity; i.e. drinking contest, chess match, driving/foot race, Legolas and Gimli style kill tally competition, etc.

 

I agree with the Jaded comments. The way the canon is worded, it makes it far too powerful. I think the Fear Trait is horribly written as well; hence the amiguity and need for house rules.

 

EDIT: The other house rule we play is for character generation. You role your stats then assign those stats to your characteristics, rather than rolling for characteristics in order, which imho is a fairly ridiculous way of genning a character for any game.


Edited by Apache, 27 July 2013 - 10:31 PM.


#38 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Kyle (Fear 4): I bet...

Dan (Fear 0): Shh, we're not allowed to be competitive remember, Kyle.

Kyle: Oh yeah, sorry.

 

[5 mins later]

 

Kyle: I bet I can be less competitive that you, Dan!

Dan: God fucking damn it Kyl... AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!


Edited by Apache, 27 July 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#39 htsmithium

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:37 PM

wow I am really tired. the first time I read that I thought Kyle had challenged Dan to a p!#$ing contest. in which case I don't want to know what gave him fear 4 lol.


 ding dong mala mortuus est,

quem veteres strigam

impii strigam

ding dong impiorum strigam mortuus est.


#40 Apache

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:30 PM

fry-can-t-tell-meme-generator-can-t-tell






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