Jump to content



Photo

Hyperspace, how does it work?


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#21 Nashable

Nashable

    Member

  • Members
  • 190 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:31 AM

 

 

It's been established that the Falcon was using a back up hyperdrive and the jump from Hoth to Bespin took "weeks" (see page 186 of the Essential Atlas)

 

 

Just keep in mind that the Atlas is also a third-tier canon source, on the same level as the West End books. 

 

 

Sure if people want to ignore canon (of any tier) then the discussion is moot :)

 

So the options are A) There is backup hyperdrives and there is plenty of sources detailing that or B) Do whatever you want, which you could always have done in the first place :)


Member of the Brick Vader fan-club (NSFW)
Author of the award winning Ship Repair for GMs (Detailed | Simple)


#22 TiLT

TiLT

    Member

  • Members
  • 175 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:33 AM

My point is that if you're going to accept the existence of the EU in your game, backup hyperdrives are official canon. If you're only basing your game on the movies, then you can do whatever you please. 



#23 Exar

Exar

    Member

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

 

So, I'm wondering how the Empire or anyone else maintains control of space, given the realities of Hyperspace...

Are ships in Hyperspace detectable?

Are they interceptable (short of having a deployable sun)?

 

and given as any ship with a Hyperspace drive can simply jump, how do pursuits work?

 

I'd recommend looking on Wookieepedia for the details on hyperspace, but to answer your questions more generally:

 

Ships in hyperspace can't be detected, but hyperspace signatures can, so you can see where a ship has jumped and try to guess where it's jumped too (this is why, when trying to escape, ships will often plot a short jump, drop out of hyperspace, then make another jump or series of jumps before heading toward their real destination).

 

There are also Interdictor ships that the Empire (and other entities) use to pull ships out of hyperspace; basically, it creates a giant mass shadow to force a ship's failsafes to kick in and drop out of hyperspace--basically tricking the ship into thinking it's going to hit a sun or something so that it forces a stop.

 

 

Pirates would use asteroids and huge chunks of ice. They would fill their cargo holds full of water then release the water into hyperspace lanes to force ships out of hyperspace...just a tip for those would be pirates who don't know.



#24 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,887 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

So, I'm wondering how the Empire or anyone else maintains control of space, given the realities of Hyperspace...
Are ships in Hyperspace detectable?
Are they interceptable (short of having a deployable sun)?
 
and given as any ship with a Hyperspace drive can simply jump, how do pursuits work?

 
I'd recommend looking on Wookieepedia for the details on hyperspace, but to answer your questions more generally:
 
Ships in hyperspace can't be detected, but hyperspace signatures can, so you can see where a ship has jumped and try to guess where it's jumped too (this is why, when trying to escape, ships will often plot a short jump, drop out of hyperspace, then make another jump or series of jumps before heading toward their real destination).
 
There are also Interdictor ships that the Empire (and other entities) use to pull ships out of hyperspace; basically, it creates a giant mass shadow to force a ship's failsafes to kick in and drop out of hyperspace--basically tricking the ship into thinking it's going to hit a sun or something so that it forces a stop.
 
Pirates would use asteroids and huge chunks of ice. They would fill their cargo holds full of water then release the water into hyperspace lanes to force ships out of hyperspace...just a tip for those would be pirates who don't know.
That doesn't make sense. Mass is what creates the shadow, so why bother with dumping the hold if you can pull them out of hyperspace just by parking the ship along the route (the full hold has the same mass as the dumped ice)?

Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#25 Kallabecca

Kallabecca

    Member

  • Members
  • 787 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

It takes a lot more than what a typical cargo hold can carry to pull a ship from hyperspace. That is why pirates tow larger objects, like asteroids into the "lane".



#26 HappyDaze

HappyDaze

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,887 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:11 PM

I was replying to the "cargo hold full of water" idea that I quoted.

Ignore, Ignore, you must learn Ignore!

 

Now Ignoring: Nobody.


#27 KRKappel

KRKappel

    Member

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

The reason they tow an object there instead of using their larger sihps as the mass shadow is because you want the target pulled out and facing a giant wall, and you want to be in an attack position behind them. If you are the object pulling them out, then you'll be on more or less equal footing with the target. Plus you don't risk getting rammed that way.


Official Contributor: Edge of the Empire: Suns of Fortune, Far Horizons, Age of Rebellion: GM's Kit, Stay on Target, and Force & Destiny: Core Rulebook

Follow me @KRKappel, facebook, and my author site. Co-founder Fandom Comics


#28 Kallabecca

Kallabecca

    Member

  • Members
  • 787 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

The reason they tow an object there instead of using their larger sihps as the mass shadow is because you want the target pulled out and facing a giant wall, and you want to be in an attack position behind them. If you are the object pulling them out, then you'll be on more or less equal footing with the target. Plus you don't risk getting rammed that way.

 

Not necessarily. The target could be pulled out of hyperspace at any point in the hemisphere of your mass object that passes through their space. So they could appear nearly above or below it.

 

Unless you have something like the Interdictor's gravity well generators, then no ship in the path would pull anyone out of hyperspace.



#29 KRKappel

KRKappel

    Member

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:19 PM

 

The reason they tow an object there instead of using their larger sihps as the mass shadow is because you want the target pulled out and facing a giant wall, and you want to be in an attack position behind them. If you are the object pulling them out, then you'll be on more or less equal footing with the target. Plus you don't risk getting rammed that way.

 

Not necessarily. The target could be pulled out of hyperspace at any point in the hemisphere of your mass object that passes through their space. So they could appear nearly above or below it.

 

Unless you have something like the Interdictor's gravity well generators, then no ship in the path would pull anyone out of hyperspace.

 

Sure. But I assume the lanes have some sort of coordinate system that keeps the rimward traffic from potentially colliding into the coreward traffic, probably one side travels just above the galactic plane, and one just below, or some such. So this means you can determine which hemisphere of the object the ship will come out in. Same with the interdictors, they'd have no idea which direction to aim their fields if they might be grabbing ships traveling from behind them). So with that assumption, be it behind, above, or below the asteroid, you can still position your ships both above and below the asteroid to ensure youll get a shot while they are making vigilance checks (which, unless they are actually in the cockpit when it happens, means they'd still have to run up to the cockpit and man the guns anyway). Besides, appearing on the far side of the asteroid on a situation like that is likely the result of a triumph for the players or despair for the pirates, since it negates the ambush element of their plan.


Official Contributor: Edge of the Empire: Suns of Fortune, Far Horizons, Age of Rebellion: GM's Kit, Stay on Target, and Force & Destiny: Core Rulebook

Follow me @KRKappel, facebook, and my author site. Co-founder Fandom Comics


#30 mrvander

mrvander

    Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:37 PM

My point is that if you're going to accept the existence of the EU in your game, backup hyperdrives are official canon. If you're only basing your game on the movies, then you can do whatever you please. 

 

Just to clear this point up a bit - you can do whatever you please, period. Whether or not you base your canon on any source or not. Make it your own. Eliminate the things you don't like, use the things you do. Who cares what others consider "canon"?

 

  • Don't want an entire Empire being brought down by teddy bears? Forget about it.
     
  • Like the idea of Grand Admiral Thrawn and the Chiss? By all means incorporate it.
     
  • If you say the Millenium Falcon got to Bespin on sublight and eschew "backup drives" - go right ahead. After all Star Wars doesn't follow the laws of astrophysics unless it's convenient to the narrative or experience.

Don't let anyone but you and your players decide what's canon (or truth) for your game.



#31 KRKappel

KRKappel

    Member

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:44 PM

 

My point is that if you're going to accept the existence of the EU in your game, backup hyperdrives are official canon. If you're only basing your game on the movies, then you can do whatever you please. 

 

Just to clear this point up a bit - you can do whatever you please, period. Whether or not you base your canon on any source or not. Make it your own. Eliminate the things you don't like, use the things you do. Who cares what others consider "canon"?

 

  • Don't want an entire Empire being brought down by teddy bears? Forget about it.
     
  • Like the idea of Grand Admiral Thrawn and the Chiss? By all means incorporate it.
     
  • If you say the Millenium Falcon got to Bespin on sublight and eschew "backup drives" - go right ahead. After all Star Wars doesn't follow the laws of astrophysics unless it's convenient to the narrative or experience.

Don't let anyone but you and your players decide what's canon (or truth) for your game.

 

That is a great sentiment, but the OP asked how it works, so it was explained how it works in the EU, since the films don't address this point quite as specifically. Also, consider that the supplements themselves are the same third tier of non-film canon as the WEG books are, and their supplements are being sent in for approval and required to adhere to the existing EU canon. So while you CAN and SHOULD run your game in any way that makes you and your players happy, the books themselves are a part of the EU, and are being written from the position that everything in that third tier or higher "counts".


Official Contributor: Edge of the Empire: Suns of Fortune, Far Horizons, Age of Rebellion: GM's Kit, Stay on Target, and Force & Destiny: Core Rulebook

Follow me @KRKappel, facebook, and my author site. Co-founder Fandom Comics


#32 mrvander

mrvander

    Member

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

If that's the sort of game you want to run, go right ahead.

 

If I want to run a cinematic game to capture the feel of the movies, I am just going to say "You limp to Bespin. It takes a while." No definite timeframe, no explanations of additional technology - just pure narrative that even sets up why the Imperials and Bounty Hunters are there ahead of you and had time to lay a trap.

 

That's how my hyperdrives work.


Edited by mrvander, 12 July 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#33 Agatheron

Agatheron

    Member

  • Members
  • 498 posts

Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

While ultimately it is up to the GM to choose how things "work" in the game, when it comes to Hyperdrive, EotE presupposes the EU idea of the backup hyperdrive. Almost all of the starships in the Core Rulebook that have Hyperdrive have a backup HD unit.

Official Contributor: Age of Rebellion: Stay on Target


#34 Josep Maria

Josep Maria

    Member

  • Members
  • 507 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:39 PM

I posted this in another post but...

 

Hi people!

 

Sorry for this new instrusion. But, what do you think about this?

 

An example of this is the journey from Coruscant to Alderaan. In terms of distance, Alderaan was situated close to Coruscant—the former at approximately 5,000 light years from the Core, the latter at approximately 10,000.[7] However, during the Imperial era, such a journey required roughly sixteen hours of travel due to a section of the route passing through a part of the largely-uncharted Deep Core, where navigation was difficult as a result of the gravity wells produced by the congregation of stars.[8] Ironically, then, it was actually faster to get from Tatooine to Alderaan on the other side of the galaxy. In some cases, intragalactic travels could take days, depending on the distance between two planets and the obstacles between.

 

In general therms... maybe time would be a basic distance reference but the main amount of time is based on Setbacks due to hazards?

 

Suggestions?


Be brave and listen to your heart.

5,935 Profile Views.


#35 Yoshiyahu

Yoshiyahu

    Member

  • Members
  • 446 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:22 PM

and given as any ship with a Hyperspace drive can simply jump, how do pursuits work?

 

Most pursuits in Star Wars assume that the ship being pursued either:

 

1. Can't jump into hyperspace because of mechanical problems. (Broken Hyperdrive)

2. Is being held in realspace by something. (Tractor Beam)

3. Doesn't posses a hyperdrive.

4. Is unwilling to jump because of plot reasons.

5. Is too close to a planet, interdictor, or other mass shadow.

 

In the latter situation, the "pursuit" is a race to get far enough away from the mass shadow to jump.


  • Jshock and cvtheoman like this

CorellianCrafts.com is now live! Be sure to check it out for hand-made Star Wars dice bags and accessories!


#36 2P51

2P51

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,551 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:39 PM

 

So the Falcon using a backp hyperdrive is speculation bases on WEG SW?

 

That's not how I would put it. Keep in mind how canon works in Star Wars. At the top are the movies. They trump everything. As far as I'm aware they never mention backup hyperdrives, so if the movies are all you want to consider for Star Wars, any theory of yours is perfectly valid. 

 

The second tier of canon consists of official TV shows, most notably the Clone Wars cartoon. As far as I'm aware backup hyperdrives are never mentioned here either. 

 

The third tier becomes more interesting. This is where the EU is introduced. The EU, to a large degree grew out of the West End Games RPG. The RPG was so thorough and so popular that Star Wars authors used it as a reference. As a result, you can consider the West End books to be a kind of lexicon to the EU, the innermost source so to speak. They are the first source to mention backup hyperdrives, and just about every ship has one. As far as EU sources go, this is as official as it gets, and it's certainly not speculation. If you want to dig up the source yourself, Wookieepedia refers to Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, First Edition pages 54-58 when talking about backup hyperdrives. 

 

For the record, there are two more tiers of canon below EU. These are (in order of importance, high to low) secondary canon (stuff like Star Wars Galaxies and the Old Republic MMO) and finally non-canon (such as Han Solo dancing in the Star Wars Kinect game for Xbox 360). 

 

You read Disney is redefining canon and what will and won't be included correct?

 

http://www.geek.com/...-canon-1581803/


My group's Obsidian Portal campaign site: It's All in the Trigger Squeeze


#37 2P51

2P51

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,551 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:41 PM

So, I'm wondering how the Empire or anyone else maintains control of space, given the realities of Hyperspace...

Are ships in Hyperspace detectable?

Are they interceptable (short of having a deployable sun)?

 

and given as any ship with a Hyperspace drive can simply jump, how do pursuits work?

Beyond discussions of canon, in terms of how they control space, the short answer is that in the big nothing in between systems they don't.  They do what navies do on Earth's oceans.  They control choke points of navigation and reasonable places people would want to go.


My group's Obsidian Portal campaign site: It's All in the Trigger Squeeze


#38 TiLT

TiLT

    Member

  • Members
  • 175 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:32 AM

 

 

So the Falcon using a backp hyperdrive is speculation bases on WEG SW?

 

That's not how I would put it. Keep in mind how canon works in Star Wars. At the top are the movies. They trump everything. As far as I'm aware they never mention backup hyperdrives, so if the movies are all you want to consider for Star Wars, any theory of yours is perfectly valid. 

 

The second tier of canon consists of official TV shows, most notably the Clone Wars cartoon. As far as I'm aware backup hyperdrives are never mentioned here either. 

 

The third tier becomes more interesting. This is where the EU is introduced. The EU, to a large degree grew out of the West End Games RPG. The RPG was so thorough and so popular that Star Wars authors used it as a reference. As a result, you can consider the West End books to be a kind of lexicon to the EU, the innermost source so to speak. They are the first source to mention backup hyperdrives, and just about every ship has one. As far as EU sources go, this is as official as it gets, and it's certainly not speculation. If you want to dig up the source yourself, Wookieepedia refers to Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, First Edition pages 54-58 when talking about backup hyperdrives. 

 

For the record, there are two more tiers of canon below EU. These are (in order of importance, high to low) secondary canon (stuff like Star Wars Galaxies and the Old Republic MMO) and finally non-canon (such as Han Solo dancing in the Star Wars Kinect game for Xbox 360). 

 

You read Disney is redefining canon and what will and won't be included correct?

 

http://www.geek.com/...-canon-1581803/

 

 

No, but thanks for posting that! I think this is good news. The previous canon tiers worked well until the release of the prequels, at which point things got confusing since things that were considered canon at the third tier now suddenly was turned non-canon at any tier. This will only get worse with the new movies, which are likely to de-canonize almost everything we know from the Expanded Universe, at least the parts set after Episode 6. 

 

A stricter, more official and unified canon is going to make the Star Wars universe easier to understand and catalog, and it will render discussions like these moot. :)

 

Of course, these changes will anger a lot of Star Wars geeks, but that's their problem. 


Edited by TiLT, 01 March 2014 - 03:33 AM.


#39 RogueCorona

RogueCorona

    Member

  • Members
  • 779 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

 In all fairness the prequels only caused minor issues with the EU which a few retrocons dealt with easily.

 

Jedi aren't supposed to marry but some had kids? They either did so secretly like Anakin did or were parts of rogue Jedi groups that ignored the current rules of the main order.

 

Someone who was on the side of the Republic during the Clone Wars remembers fighting clones despite the republic army using clones? The CIS tried to form their own Clone Army and he fought that one.

 

Mon Calamari showing u when the EU said that their first contact with the Galaxy was during the Galactic Empire's reign? That was actually Imperial propoganda trying to rewrite history and they ad really been part of the Republic for thousands of years pre-Empire.

 

Someone remembers being in the Republic Navy pre-Military creation act? They were actually part of the Judical forces which were the closest thing the Republic had to a unified military pre-act, or perhaps one of the planetary or sector defense forces that existed pre-Act (And honestly the whole no Republic Military pre-Clone Wars idea was IMO utterly insane.

 

It was only when the second Clone Wars series came out that things became irreconcilable.



#40 jburgos

jburgos

    Member

  • Members
  • 41 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

It's also mentioned in the Essential Atlas and a ton of other sources, see the bottom of this page: http://starwars.wiki...wiki/Hyperdrive

 

SW Essential Atlas, great book to use as reference for EoE games:

 

http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Edited by jburgos, 01 March 2014 - 10:44 AM.

Member of RPG Lab





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS