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#1 Kager

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:55 PM

I for one am happy there was no mention or mechanic in the Force chapter for midichlorians. You cant tell me you didnt fear this when you were reading it..

Just alittle humor..
Happy gaming!!

Edited by Kager, 10 July 2013 - 04:56 PM.


#2 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:19 PM

Well, it seems that most Star Wars material "politely ignores" that particular subject.

 

The last EU mention they got was (I believe) in the Death Star novel, where one of the on-station medical staff mentions that it's included in the bloodwork for patients, with the results sent to Imperial Center, but he doesn't know why they want that information or even what it's used for.


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#3 korjik

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:34 PM

SHUN HIM! He said the forbidden word!

 

:)


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#4 fjw70

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:41 PM

Don't speak too soon. The next couple books will have more force info.

#5 Gallandro

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:21 PM

Why would there even be a mechanic for midichlorians, sounds more like a thread to bait people.  Midichlorians aren't the Force, and the only purpose they would serve in any type of gaming mechanic would be to suggest how powerful a persons affinity is to the Force.... but we already have that mechanic, it's the Force die.

 

Yancy



#6 fjw70

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

The MC count could determine your max force rating. I doubt we will see it but it's possible.

#7 Voice

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:42 PM

Well, it seems that most Star Wars material "politely ignores" that particular subject.

 

The last EU mention they got was (I believe) in the Death Star novel, where one of the on-station medical staff mentions that it's included in the bloodwork for patients, with the results sent to Imperial Center, but he doesn't know why they want that information or even what it's used for.

I like that.  For most people, a midiclorian count is as of little importance as a flea count of the neighborhood stray.  Knowing it serves virtually no purpose, unless you have a very good reason for wanting to know.



#8 Scars Unseen

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:51 PM

The MC count could determine your max force rating. I doubt we will see it but it's possible.

That makes about as much sense from a gameplay standpoint as the racial level limits in AD&D.  Less even, because at least AD&D gave a logical method of determining the limit.  "You have this limit because you chose to be an elf," works better than "Your Midichlorian count is low because Reasons."



#9 fjw70

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:04 PM

MC could always be addressed indirectly. Maybe PCs could have a max force rating of 6, but Vader would be 7 and Palps would be 9. The reason for these ratings could be MC count but you would not have to say that.

#10 DylanRPG

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:54 AM

I'd like to see a whole expansion on Midichlorians. In this version of the game, after you are done creating your super cool character, you must then play the ten year old child version of that character.

ZING!


Edited by DylanRPG, 11 July 2013 - 12:54 AM.

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#11 Rookhelm

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:58 AM

>>Everyone accepts Force power is related through genetic heritage of their parents

>>Get mad when Lucas calls that genetic heritage midichlorians


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#12 TiLT

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:37 AM

I was one of the people who hated midichlorians when they were introduced in Episode 1. Then I watched Episode 3, where the payoff for that particular bit of lore paid off, and I went "oh... OH! NOW it makes sense. Cool!"

 

It appears the whole midichlorian thing was set up by Lucas as a plot twist about Anakin Skywalker's "father", but it's so subtle that I believe most people never even notice. 



#13 Raice

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.

 

Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)

 

I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.


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#14 Raice

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:50 AM

I was one of the people who hated midichlorians when they were introduced in Episode 1. Then I watched Episode 3, where the payoff for that particular bit of lore paid off, and I went "oh... OH! NOW it makes sense. Cool!"

 

It appears the whole midichlorian thing was set up by Lucas as a plot twist about Anakin Skywalker's "father", but it's so subtle that I believe most people never even notice. 

 

*Deleted message*


Edited by Raice, 11 July 2013 - 07:57 AM.


#15 Rykaar

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

I told my group at the beginning of our campaign that two things were inflexible:

 

1) there are no midichlorians in our version of the SW galaxy.  The force was already explained in the original trilogy and didn't need further pseudo-explanation that shattered the big Mystery of the Force but still left too many unanswered questions.  Of all the stupid decisions Lucas made, this is probably the worst because of its implications.  The whole Han/Greedo thing really only adversely affects one character but still rates a strong #2 (pun intended).

 

2) Ewoks are not and will never be a playable race.  The Ewok Holiday Special is buy one hat lined with ewok fur, get one free.

 

We're also holding only to the Battle of Yavin as a fixed historical fact that shone a beacon of hope for the Rebellion and a clarion warning for the Empire: what happens afterwards is up for grabs and may well be influenced by the PCs in some ways.



#16 fjw70

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.
 
Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.
 
Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)
 
I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.


The higher count individual isn't necessarily more powerful. Training comes into play as well. MC count is just potential power.

#17 Gallandro

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.

 

Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)

 

I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.

 

Not even close, again I have no clue where people get this stuff from.  The midi-chlorians have never been and never were in Lucas' mind... the Force.  They are simply the gateway and served basically four points:

 

1)  Explains, in a tangible way, why Anakin is more powerful and Force sensitive than the other Jedi.  It further reinforces the fact that he is a loner, so even though he's sitting there with his fellow Jedi he knows in the end he's "better" than the rest of them... which of course leads to a whole host of other problems (jealousy, resentment, arrogance).

 

2)  Establishes the point of the line in ROTJ, "the Force runs strong in my family..."  Obviously even then Lucas was thinking that there's something which makes the Skywalker clan special versus your run of the mill Jedi.  (BTW, Yes I'm fully aware of story conversations he had with Lawrence Kasdan in which he states anyone can learn to use the Force, "it's like yoga" was his direct quote.  Doesn't invalidate anything with the introduction of midi-chlorians... they simply qauge your potential).

 

3)  It reinforces one of the central themes of Episode I... symbiotic relations... working together.  So you have this thing in your blood which works with each individual as conduit to the Force, and as Qui-Gon says:

"...we are symbionts with them. Life-forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians,
life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you.
"

 

Contrast that with two societies, the Naboo and the Gungans who are face with a mutual enemy in the Trade Federation.  They are forced to work together to ensure their mutual survival.  Lucas clarified this in an interview:

 

"Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something–which will come out someday–to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn’t exist. And it’s really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn’t be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other."

 

4)  Which leads to the final reason for their presence... an explanation for Anakin's "virgin birth."  In Revenge of the Sith Palpatine more than implies that in some fashion he and his master at the time, Darth Plagueis, are responsible for the creation of Anakin.

 

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying."

 

Whether you agree with his storytelling decisions here or not, there was a reasoning behind them and they are not simply some effort to make the Force more relatable to a modern audience.  

 

Yancy


Edited by Gallandro, 11 July 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#18 DylanRPG

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:46 AM

Of course Gallandro, one wonders how truthful Palpatine was being ... but more importantly, George Lucas has stated (for instance on the dvd commentary) that Anakin truly was the chosen one, and that even when he became Darth Vader, he remained the chosen one. It was by destroying the Emperor and himself that he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that what Palpatine said was a lie, but it is important to remember that the prophecy was not a sham.

It's also worth noting that Anakin being born of a virgin is in keeping with many classic mythological stories in which the hero is indeed born of a virgin.


Edited by DylanRPG, 11 July 2013 - 09:46 AM.

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#19 BrashFink

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:58 AM

In my campaign, I treat the Original Trilogy as a Highly interpretive version of what really happen put out as Imperial propaganda after the clone wars (minus some key points that public would not know of course like Vader & Anakin connection, secret birth, etc).

 

This allows to me say that Midichlorians are an Imperial invention to explain away the jedi as being special… Also stuff like Order 66 did NOT go down as smooth as the empire would have you believe.



#20 whafrog

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:10 AM

Not even close, again I have no clue where people get this stuff from.  The midi-chlorians have never been and never were in Lucas' mind... the Force.  They are simply the gateway and served basically four points:

 

Nice summary, that's pretty much how I understood it when the concept was introduced in E1, I have no idea why people objected to it.  If they add it to the game, it's all fine with me, in fact, I hope they do.  The whole concept is centered around symbiosis which is central to the teachings of the Jedi.  The mitochondria model is just the tip of it:  we are learning now that our microflora are essential to being alive...there are more cells in our body that aren't technically "us" than those we call our own.  Or check this out:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ef=science&_r=0

 

 

Life does not exist in a laboratory vacuum, where scientists can pare away genes to some Platonic purity. Life exists in a tapestry, and the species with the smallest genomes in the world survive only because they are nestled in life’s net.

 

So if Lucas (and FFG) wants a biological model for Force awareness and ability and galaxy-spanning unity, it's just drawing on what we already know of the real world.






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