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LOR Hexer Class Questions


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#1 any2cards

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:17 AM

I know that many of you may not even have Labyrinth of Ruin, let alone played it, but we have come up with some questions after utilizing the Hexer class.  Any attempted answers, observations, comments, etc. would be welcome.

 

I suspect that some of these questions may become fodder for the FAQ.

 

Question #1 concerns the Enfeebling Hex skill card.  It reads as follows:

 

Enfeebling Hex: XP Cost: 0, Fatigue Cost: 0

   While you have a Magic weapon equipped, each of your attacks gains:

      Surge: Hex 1 monster within 3 spaces of your target.

   When performing an attack targeting a hexed monster, a hero may discard any number

   of hex tokens before spending Surges.  The attack gains +1H for each hex token

   discarded.

 

Our question concerns the first part of the card "... Hex 1 monster within 3 spaces of your target."  Can you choose to hex the actual target monster?  Obviously, it is within 3 spaces of itself, but the way it is phrased "seems" to indicate a difference between the target and all other monsters within 3 spaces of itself.  Thoughts?

 

Question #2 concerns the Affliction skill card.  It reads as follows:

 

Affliction: XP Cost: 1, Fatigue Cost: 1

   Exhaust this card when a hexed monster declares a move action and discard 1 hex

   token from that monster.  That monster immediately suffers 1 Heart.  In addition, that

   monster suffers 1 additional Heart for each space it moves during its activation.

 

Our question concerns the second part of the card "... that monster suffers 1 additional Heart for each space it moves during its activation".  If a hero has a weapon and/or skill and/or effect that allows it to attack the monster during the monster's activation (almost like an interrupt in D1e). and that hero's weapon and/or skill and/or effect MOVES the monster, does the monster suffer 1 additional heart for each space moved, or does this only happen when the monster voluntarily moves on its own during its activation?

 

Question #3 concerns the Fel Command skill card.  It reads as follows:

 

Fel Command: XP Cost: 2, Fatigue Cost: 2

   Exhaust this card when the overlord choose a hexed monster to activate.  Discard 1

   hex token from that monster to immediately perform an attack with it.  You make all

  choices during the attack.  After the attack is resolved, the monster activates as normal.

 

This skill seems to provide the heroes with a D1e like "Dark Charm" ability against monsters (although even better in that it allows the heroes to make all choices such as how to spend surges, skills, etc.).  Can you force the monster from which you remove the hex token to attack itself?  And, back to the age old question ... is "monster" synonymous with "Lieutenant" and/or is it synonymous with a possessed Ally?

 

Begin the debate.  We are interested to see how others would rule on these questions.

 



#2 RagsMckay

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

1. I have no say either way. I can come up with points for either side, so I feel that one simply needs more clarification from FFG.

 

2. Because of the way it is worded, "In addition, that monster suffers 1 additional Heart for each space it moves during its activation." I feel that if a hero has some way of forcing a monster move more spaces, then yes it would take additional damage for those spaced it was forced to move into.

 

3. One question I have here is: can a hero ever be hexed? If that is the case then I believe a dark charmed hero could possibly be affected by this, but it all comes down to timing. However when it comes to Lietenants, they most certainly qualify as a monster and should be affected just like any other hexed monster. Lietenants are only unique in that they cannot be used as an open group. They must still adhere to the rules of monsters.


I die...A lot.


#3 any2cards

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

3. One question I have here is: can a hero ever be hexed? If that is the case then I believe a dark charmed hero could possibly be affected by this, but it all comes down to timing. However when it comes to Lietenants, they most certainly qualify as a monster and should be affected just like any other hexed monster. Lietenants are only unique in that they cannot be used as an open group. They must still adhere to the rules of monsters.

 

I don't think you really understood the first part of the question.  With the Fel Command skill, a hero is permitted to choose a hexed monster that the OL has just activated, and use that monster to attack something.  You can obviously attack other monsters with that monster, but we are wondering if the chosen hexed monster can be forced to attack itself.

 

This could come in quite handy with powerful monsters, lieutenants (if indeed they are synonymous), etc.

 

The only reason I brought up Dark Charm from D1e is because an OL can force a Dark Charmed hero in D1e to attack himself.



#4 RagsMckay

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

Dark Charm in 2e also alows for a character to attack itself, so I do not see why Fel Command would be any different.


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#5 any2cards

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:29 PM

Dark Charm in 2e also alows for a character to attack itself, so I do not see why Fel Command would be any different.

 

There are significant differences.  The OL Dark Charm card in D2e specifically states that you may force the hero to attack himself.  Fel Command does not make this distinction.

 

In addition, Dark Charm does not give you the choice as to how to spend a hero's attributes.  For example, when using Dark Charm, you cannot force a hero to suffer fatigue, in order to activate additional abilities/skills.  With Fel Command, the hero specifically gets to make all choices as to how a monster's abilities/skills are utilized.

 

These reasons, as well as others, is why I thought these questions would make a lively debate.  I have actually submitted the questions to FFG for a rules clarification.  If I hear back anything official, I will post it here.



#6 RagsMckay

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:52 PM

I think you are splitting hairs here a little bit. In 1e you still could not spend fatigue on a Dark Charm so no difference there. The OL still says how surges are spent in 2e Dark Charm so no difference there. Monsters have no fatigue so no need to mention it nor do Lietenants. So to me Fel Command is effectivly the same thing as Dark Charm as far as causing a character to make an attack.

 

The attack made during the Fel Command is just that an attack. They do not get to perform a Sweep or other types of monster actions that have an attack as part of that action. They do get to spend surges to add effects to that attack like pierce, stun, burn...


Edited by RagsMckay, 10 July 2013 - 02:58 PM.

I die...A lot.


#7 Kunzite

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:36 PM

This skill seems to provide the heroes with a D1e like "Dark Charm" ability against monsters (although even better in that it allows the heroes to make all choices such as how to spend surges, skills, etc.).  Can you force the monster from which you remove the hex token to attack itself?  And, back to the age old question ... is "monster" synonymous with "Lieutenant" and/or is it synonymous with a possessed Ally?

 

I would like to stay that my heroes never let me use cards that said monster of them for my Lieutenants. So I would be game to stay hex doesn't work for my Lieutenants and I would like to put my foot down there >( Many cards will excursively point out when Lieutenant can be targeted.

 

But in the side of fairness (because OL fight fair x.x as apposed to popular belief) that would make this character pretty useless in those battles where a Lieutenant is key.

 

BTW, Hexes get out of hand really quickly. We played an epic quest with that character. One attack that hexed things hexed almost my entire army of Kobolds (yes. they are funny. You will lose, but every OL should play with them once) was then followed up by a burst attack. It was a wow moment.

 

My team of heroes are really good at combos. ~.~


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#8 any2cards

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:21 PM

I received the following e-mail clarification from FFG:

 

Yes, lieutenants are treated as monsters, so indeed Fel Command can be used on a lieutenant.
 
However, it does not allow you to force the monster to attack itself.
 
Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com


#9 Kunzite

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:31 PM

 

I received the following e-mail clarification from FFG:

 

Yes, lieutenants are treated as monsters, so indeed Fel Command can be used on a lieutenant.
 
However, it does not allow you to force the monster to attack itself.
 
Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

Beautiful. Thank you for that!


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#10 Sym

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

Oh thank goodness.  I was worried that I'd get to experience the magic of Baron Zachareth attacking and stunning himself every turn, whilst also taking massive damage from his own Shield of Zorek's Favor.



#11 any2cards

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:35 AM

I received additional clarifications from FFG concerning my first two questions.  Their answers are as follows:

 

Question #1: "... Hex 1 monster within 3 spaces of your target."  Can you choose to hex the actual target monster?  Obviously, it is within 3 spaces of itself, but the way it is phrased "seems" to indicate a difference between the target and all other monsters within 3 spaces of itself.  Thoughts?

 

FFG Answer: The target monster may be chosen as the monster to hex.

 

Question #2: "... that monster suffers 1 additional Heart for each space it moves during its activation".  If a hero has a weapon and/or skill and/or effect that allows it to attack the monster during the monster's activation (almost like an interrupt in D1e). and that hero's weapon and/or skill and/or effect MOVES the monster, does the monster suffer 1 additional heart for each space moved, or does this only happen when the monster voluntarily moves on its own during its activation?

 

FFG Answer: The monster only suffers additional damage when it chooses to move.



#12 maldion

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:10 PM

the

Shadow Hunter: XP Cost: 2, Fatigue Cost: 0

   Your Wolf adds 1 additional Gray die to its defense pool.

   Before activating your Wolf, you may choose to perform an attack with it, rolling the dice

   shown below.  Then your Wolf is defeated.  Dice: Melee: Red Red Green Gree

 

its not using any blue dice? so u can never miss whit it?



#13 any2cards

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:00 PM

the

Shadow Hunter: XP Cost: 2, Fatigue Cost: 0

   Your Wolf adds 1 additional Gray die to its defense pool.

   Before activating your Wolf, you may choose to perform an attack with it, rolling the dice

   shown below.  Then your Wolf is defeated.  Dice: Melee: Red Red Green Gree

 

its not using any blue dice? so u can never miss whit it?

 

That would appear to be the case, and why it is immediately defeated after the attack.  Do note that with the green dice you can do at most 1 damage, and only on average 0.67 points of damage.



#14 Radish

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:19 AM

That reply to the second question should definetely be in the faq since the wording implies ANY movement causes life loss, not just movement under the Overlord's control.  That seems like an errata thing to me but I I agree with it since it sounds a bit too powerful as is.

 

I agree with answer to one since it doesn't say ANOTHER monster and figures of within range of themseles.


Edited by Radish, 12 July 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#15 SolennelBern

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:58 AM

My view:

 

Question #1: Yes.  The target monster is "within 3 spaces" so you could Hex your target.  The ability doesn't say to Hex another monster, but simply Hex one monster.

 

Question #2: Yes if the Hero's ability/skill say that you move the monster.  The text say the monster suffers 1H each time it moves, not when it performs a move action.  That's the difference.

 

Question #3: Tricky one! I don't think a figure can attack itself deliberately...I'm not sure if this iss covered in the rules or FAQ but my understanding is that a figure cannot attack itself.  So i'd say no.

 

BTW the Hexer look like pure awesome fun to play.  I'll try it next time I play on the Heroes side.



#16 RagsMckay

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

Question #3: Tricky one! I don't think a figure can attack itself deliberately...I'm not sure if this iss covered in the rules or FAQ but my understanding is that a figure cannot attack itself.  So i'd say no.

 

Technically a monster can only attack it self if you follow the rules by strict definition.  See page 9 of the rule book.

 

When a hero player performs an attack action, he may use one of his equipped weapons to attack a space containing a monster.

 

Monster attacks follow the same rules when attacking heroes, except that monsters don’t have equipped weapons.
 
At least that is how it could be interpreted as it does not say make an attack on a space containing a hero. My group laughed about it.

I die...A lot.


#17 SolennelBern

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

 

Question #3: Tricky one! I don't think a figure can attack itself deliberately...I'm not sure if this iss covered in the rules or FAQ but my understanding is that a figure cannot attack itself.  So i'd say no.

 

Technically a monster can only attack it self if you follow the rules by strict definition.  See page 9 of the rule book.

 

When a hero player performs an attack action, he may use one of his equipped weapons to attack a space containing a monster.

 

Monster attacks follow the same rules when attacking heroes, except that monsters don’t have equipped weapons.
 
At least that is how it could be interpreted as it does not say make an attack on a space containing a hero. My group laughed about it.

 

 

IMO that's just another case of bad typo by FFG.  They're known for this lol.

I still think, and play like this, that monsters may attack a space containing a Hero.



#18 Kunzite

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

sooo... Heroes literately, heroes can't hit themselves without outside influence, but monsters can... This just proves my point! All my monsters are incompetent idiots!!

 

(So is the joke with my group and my illustrations of our campaign x.x)


"Bide your time and hold out hope."

~Count of Monte Cristo

 

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#19 Steve-O

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:06 PM

 

When a hero player performs an attack action, he may use one of his equipped weapons to attack a space containing a monster.

 

Monster attacks follow the same rules when attacking heroes, except that monsters don’t have equipped weapons.

 

That's just FFG being unfortunately vague.  The rules for attacks on page 12 are more clear:

 

1. Declare Weapon and Target
The attacking player declares which space his figure is attacking. The target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack.
 
Monsters cannot attack other monsters, normally speaking.
 

 

Question #1

Our question concerns the first part of the card "... Hex 1 monster within 3 spaces of your target."  Can you choose to hex the actual target monster?  Obviously, it is within 3 spaces of itself, but the way it is phrased "seems" to indicate a difference between the target and all other monsters within 3 spaces of itself.  Thoughts?

 

Question #2

Our question concerns the second part of the card "... that monster suffers 1 additional Heart for each space it moves during its activation".  If a hero has a weapon and/or skill and/or effect that allows it to attack the monster during the monster's activation (almost like an interrupt in D1e). and that hero's weapon and/or skill and/or effect MOVES the monster, does the monster suffer 1 additional heart for each space moved, or does this only happen when the monster voluntarily moves on its own during its activation?

 

Question #3

This skill seems to provide the heroes with a D1e like "Dark Charm" ability against monsters (although even better in that it allows the heroes to make all choices such as how to spend surges, skills, etc.).  Can you force the monster from which you remove the hex token to attack itself?  And, back to the age old question ... is "monster" synonymous with "Lieutenant" and/or is it synonymous with a possessed Ally?

 

A1: Yes, the target is a monster within 3 spaces of itself, therefore it may be chosen.  I suppose FFG has already answered this one, though =P

 

A2: I would have said yes, the monster takes damage for forced movement during its activation.  FFG has already contradicted me on that one, though.  Errata'd.

 

A3: Initially I was thinking that the monster would have to target a hero, since normally monsters must target heroes and this ability doesn't actually say the monster can target other monsters.  Nor does it say the monster is considered a hero for this attack or anything weird like that.

 

But then I re-read the rules for attacking on page 12.  They say that the attacking player must declare a space that contains an enemy figure for the attack.  I don't know that any player can really claim enmity against plastic figures, but assuming this sentence is to have any logical meaning, I'm inclined to think that this means the monster in fact must target another monster (LTs included, of course.)

 

Taken more generally, this ruling also means that the player controlling any particular attack may and indeed must always pick a figure (or figures) belonging to the opposing side as his target.  Unless the ability itself specifically says to target friendly figures for some reason.  This makes a certain amount of sense, to me, so I'm not particularly opposed to this discovery myself.

 

And FFG has already clarified the point of whether or not the monster may attack itself, which is good because that was looking like a pretty big question mark to me.


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#20 Frozen_Firebat

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:27 AM

I have a couple questions concerning the Hexer class, and this seems like a good place to ask, so here it goes.
 
Question #1

 

The Internal Rot skill reads:
 
Internal Rot: XP Cost: 2, Fatigue Cost: 0
   Each time a monster becomes hexed, you may place 1 additional hex token on that monster.
   Each of your attacks with a magic weapon targeting a hexed monster gains Pierce 2.
 
Does this imply any time a monster is hexed, or only the first time?
 
Question #2
 
The Plague Cloud skill reads:
 

Plague Cloud: XP Cost: 3, Fatigue Cost: 3

    Action: Perform an attack with a magic weapon. This attack targets each hexed monster in your line of sight and ignores range. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Before rolling dice for the attack, each monster adjacent to a target monster is hexed.

 

Since the attack targets multiple hexed monsters, can I use Enfeebling Hex to discard hex tokens from each of those monsters? If so, would the discarded hex tokens contribute overall damage to the attack, or only damage to the monster from which I discarded the hex tokens? For example, I use Plague Cloud targeting two monsters, where monster A has 2 hex tokens, and monster B only has 1. Can I discard all of the hex tokens to deal +3 damage to both monsters, or would it only deal +2 damage to monster A, and +1 to monster B.

 

(Relevant text from the Enfeebling Hex skill: "When performing an attack targeting a hexed monster, a hero may discard any number of hex tokens before spending surges. The attack gains +1 heart for each hex token discarded.")

 

Also, what happens if I add Blast to the attack (e.g. with the Lightning Strike rune)? Would the blast apply to every targeted monster as well?






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