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Force Powers clarification


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#1 Corrinmana

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

I'm reading the force move power, though all of them are worded this way.

 

Under Strength, Magnitude, and Range, it says spend one force point to increase X by the number of upgrades purchased.

The way it is worded makes me think it means one point ever and not one point per upgrade. If that is correct, a person who has purchased the entire tree can, for four force points, pickup a 4 YT-1300s, and throw them Extreme range. It should be noted this would mean he could throw 1 YT-1300 the distance a sniper can shoot and hit someone for 40 damage for 3 force points.

 

???



#2 EldritchFire

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

I'm reading the force move power, though all of them are worded this way.
 
Under Strength, Magnitude, and Range, it says spend one force point to increase X by the number of upgrades purchased.
The way it is worded makes me think it means one point ever and not one point per upgrade. If that is correct, a person who has purchased the entire tree can, for four force points, pickup a 4 YT-1300s, and throw them Extreme range. It should be noted this would mean he could throw 1 YT-1300 the distance a sniper can shoot and hit someone for 40 damage for 3 force points.
 
???


That is correct! They can indeed throw a YT-1300 that far. But how much XP is it going to cost to be able to do that? And I'm not just talking about the Move power tree. Also add in the XP cost to increase your Force Rating to 2, the minimum needed to get 3 Force Points on a roll.

Or you could just pick up a sniper rifle and shoot someone. Less damage, sure, but nowhere near the XP cost, nor will it damage your ride.

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#3 Josep Maria

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

Hi there!

 

As I use to say, don't worry about balance, for my personal opinion balance in games uses to be a problem with realism in games. If do you want to create a balanced game just don't use The Force or other awesome things.

 

At the Wookipedia you can read a big assort of powers that well... are "a bit unbalanced" XD and are official and canonical (almost the highest canon level).

 

You cannot balance a martial artist against a fully armed WWII tank, PROBABLY (99%) tank will win XD

 

Force is awesome and that move power seems awesome! Until the moment, comparing with other games/editions, is the best version of "Move object/telekinesis" I've seen.

 

Take care! :)


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#4 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:36 PM

I'm reading the force move power, though all of them are worded this way.

 

Under Strength, Magnitude, and Range, it says spend one force point to increase X by the number of upgrades purchased.

The way it is worded makes me think it means one point ever and not one point per upgrade. If that is correct, a person who has purchased the entire tree can, for four force points, pickup a 4 YT-1300s, and throw them Extreme range. It should be noted this would mean he could throw 1 YT-1300 the distance a sniper can shoot and hit someone for 40 damage for 3 force points.

 

???

You're correct, in that it's just one Force Point to activate all the Upgrades.

 

And yes, it can seem powerful... at first.  Just remember that buying those Upgrades costs Experience, and you still need to roll enough Force Points to activate both the Basic Power and the desired Upgrades.  So for most Exiles, they're going to be limited to a Basic effect and one Upgrade, at least until they manage to increase their Force Rating to 2.

 

The other thing to remember is that while the F/S Exile is purchasing those Upgrades, other PCs are buying up their skills and purchasing talents.  Much like WEG d6, a Force-user runs into the choice of either being a specialist at using the Force and not much good at other things (like using a blaster or flying a starship) or not focusing as much on the Force to buy up skills and talents.

 

Also, the thing to remember is that just because your Force-user has the ability to lift a Silhouette 4 object, that doesn't mean there's always going to be Silhouette 4 objects just lying around.  Unlike Saga Edition, the damage from Move is based upon the size of the object plus any uncancelled successes you have from the Discipline check.  So best case scenario, you might be able to wing about 20 damage at a target with a Silhouette 2 object, but most of the time you'll be hurling Silhouette 1 objects for 10 damage instead.

 

And with Force Points, there's not as many Light Side facings as there are Dark Side facings, and to use those Dark Side facings, you have to spend a Destiny Point and suffer an equivalent amount of Strain.  Plus, only one of the Dark Side facings shows multiple dots, the rest are a single dot.  When GM Chris was running his "Enemy of My Enemy" module at Reapercon earlier this year, the TK-based F/S Exile had to spend a lot of Destiny Points and suffer Strain in order to use her powers due to the player constantly rolling Dark Side results, and even then had to settle for just the basic effect.


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#5 Voice

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:48 PM

 

I'm reading the force move power, though all of them are worded this way.

 

Under Strength, Magnitude, and Range, it says spend one force point to increase X by the number of upgrades purchased.

The way it is worded makes me think it means one point ever and not one point per upgrade. If that is correct, a person who has purchased the entire tree can, for four force points, pickup a 4 YT-1300s, and throw them Extreme range. It should be noted this would mean he could throw 1 YT-1300 the distance a sniper can shoot and hit someone for 40 damage for 3 force points.

 

???

You're correct, in that it's just one Force Point to activate all the Upgrades.

 

And yes, it can seem powerful... at first.  Just remember that buying those Upgrades costs Experience, and you still need to roll enough Force Points to activate both the Basic Power and the desired Upgrades.  So for most Exiles, they're going to be limited to a Basic effect and one Upgrade, at least until they manage to increase their Force Rating to 2.

And even then, he's usually limited to the Basic power and one Upgrade, since you're slightly less than 50:50 on the chance of getting a light side result on the Force die.



#6 Endrik Tenebris

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:55 PM

Let's also not forget that, to lift the four freighters, he'd have to also pass a Discipline of (pppp) difficulty.  Since you're lifting four freighters, feel free to upgrade the difficulty a few times as well, for each additional massive item he's lifting.  I would upgrade it three times at least, personally.

He would then have to make a successful ranged combat check against the opponent, who technically still gets to apply his ranged defense, since it follows the same rules for ranged combat (Go, personal deflector shield and Dodge, go!).

If all of that succeeds, then yes, thechnically he could throw four freighters at the same guy.  But, like, it won't be easy.

Baseline, being able to do this would cost a minimum of 235 XP.

20 for FSE specialization.
10 for Move.
55 for the 4 Strength upgrades.
20 for the three Magnitude upgrades.
25 for Range upgrades.

10 for Control upgrade that lets you use Move offensively.

95 for the shortest talent path to get to Force Rating 2.

You would also need access to four freighters to throw.  And, you'd have to roll exceptionally well on your force dice, or suffer strain to convert DS points.  And lets not forget that with this bare-bones build, your Discipline skill is likely no higher than 2 at the most, with a 5 in your willpower (if you are lucky.)

Yes, your character is a telekinetic monster.  But that's literally the only thing you can do.  Useful as this ability is, it isn't really broken, since it requires a bajillion checks to even do it right.  Personally, I would be thrilled if people started trying to do stuff like this.  It would be hilarious.  And, if it worked, imagine the **** you could get away with pitting them against.  What if the enemies started using the same tactic?


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