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Scatter with shotguns + Semi?


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#1 Deadlyfox2390

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:47 AM

Heya, one of my players has managed to wrestle a combat shotgun out of the hands of a less then willing heretic and he then proceeded to switch the fire mode to semi take aim and fire this poor sod away, alls well and good (well as well as it can be in the grim dark) but he got 8 degrees of success Point blank +30 - Semi +10 and his BS is 45 atm and he had the amazing roll of a 001 when he needed to roll under 85. Now, he obviously turns this poor lil'guys head into a fine red mist. But the question came up, does scatter count on the semi shots? so does my gun-ho acolyte now have something that can result in 3 shots each with a bonus extra 4 damage rolls and could they righteous fury? Has this happened in any of your games and what did you do?

 

 cheers



#2 Adeptus-B

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

'Scatter' counts as inflicting an extra hit if you meet the qualifications; I don't think it would function any different with semi/full auto. But, since the extra hit didn't require a roll of its own, I don't think it should have a chance to inflict Righteous Fury.



#3 Adeptus-B

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

-And don't forget: since they count as separate hits, Armour and Toughness apply to each one, not once against all of them, like with the extra damage from Accurate weapons..



#4 Deadlyfox2390

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:16 AM

Cheers for that, the armor / toughness is good and I didn't really think about the righteous fury thats a good point



#5 Illithidelderbrain

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:26 PM

'Scatter' counts as inflicting an extra hit if you meet the qualifications; I don't think it would function any different with semi/full auto. But, since the extra hit didn't require a roll of its own, I don't think it should have a chance to inflict Righteous Fury.

I think you're wrong on this point Adeptus.. Quoting from the Righteous Fury sidebar: "When you roll a 10 on any die, it may indicate that the eye of the Emperor is upon you..." There is no exemption for scatter, there. I agree with everything else (Armour/ Toughness for each hit, etc, but I would rule that any die that comes up a 10 has the chance to cause additional damage.



#6 Adeptus-B

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 03:05 PM

 

'Scatter' counts as inflicting an extra hit if you meet the qualifications; I don't think it would function any different with semi/full auto. But, since the extra hit didn't require a roll of its own, I don't think it should have a chance to inflict Righteous Fury.

I think you're wrong on this point Adeptus.. Quoting from the Righteous Fury sidebar: "When you roll a 10 on any die, it may indicate that the eye of the Emperor is upon you..." There is no exemption for scatter, there. I agree with everything else (Armour/ Toughness for each hit, etc, but I would rule that any die that comes up a 10 has the chance to cause additional damage.

 

True, it isn't specified that Scatter can't cause Righteous Fury.That's my interpretation of the fact that a roll to Confirm is required- I think that, since the extra Scatter hit didn't require its own to hit roll, you can't Confirm said roll. But I may be wrong; I could just be making up a House Rule on the subject...



#7 Jargal

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:53 PM

That's my interpretation of the fact that a roll to Confirm is required- I think that, since the extra Scatter hit didn't require its own to hit roll, you can't Confirm said roll.

 

Do you allow RF only at 1st from autofire hits? Second&nexts didn't require its own to hit rolls too.



#8 Adeptus-B

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:38 AM

Do you allow RF only at 1st from autofire hits? Second&nexts didn't require its own to hit rolls too.

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I was thinking of Scatter as being more of an 'effect' than an 'attack', but I guess it makes sense to treat it like the extra hits from full/semi-auto.



#9 Face Eater

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:07 AM

I've not found that Scatter proved very dangerous theme or unbalanced as there it's especially difficult to leverage it all together when it requires getting into point blank range. Especially the SA and FA weapons that requires a full action. The fact that they have to expose themselves for a turn of running or leverage complicated combo's of weapons or psychics that people with other weapons have either more attacks overall or their own combinations that more dangerous in so many other situations.



#10 Morangias

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

I'm much more fond of BC/OW scatter. The flat +3 to damage at point blank gives shotguns a nice "kick" without boggling the game down by resolving all the extra hits - especially useful for all those shotguns with semi/full auto.


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#11 ranoncles

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:07 AM

I also don´t allow aim with semi or fully automatic fire. Aim & spray just doesn't compute in my book.......



#12 borithan

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:30 AM

"Scatter" and Semi(or full)-Auto are resolved seperately. If you have shot a scatter weapon on Semi-Auto and achieved 8 degrees of success you will get a maximum of 9 hits in total. This is 1 for the basic hit, and then an extra semi-auto hit for every two degrees of success (4) and an extra scatter hit for every two degrees of success (4). Obviously the semi auto hits are capped at RoF, so you are unlikely to get 4 for that, but that is the theoretical result.

 

The scatter effect does not get counted for every hit, just for the attack in total. If it was for every hit then a hit with 8 degrees would have maximum number of hits of 21 (1 basic hit, 4 semi auto hits and 4 scatter hits for every semi-auto hit).



#13 Morangias

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

I also don´t allow aim with semi or fully automatic fire. Aim & spray just doesn't compute in my book.......

How about "take a moment to steady your position and brace for the inevitable recoil while following and predicting the movement of the target"? Does that compute?


There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

There is no strenght in flesh, only weakness.
There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.





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