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Anyone else feel like the Necron weapons from Tome of Fate are a little off?


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#1 HappyDaze

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

I've been looking at the Necrons in detail lately and they've got some inconsitancies that are starting to bug me. The Necrons in Tome of Fate are considerably stronger than the ones in Hand of Corruption, but I'm OK with that. They are also slightly different from those found in Deathwatch's Outer Reaches, and most of those changes are due to the differences between game lines. The problem I'm having is with some of the Necron melee weapons in Tome of Fate.

 

The damage values for the Dispersion Shield (1d10+25), Hyperphase Sword (1d10+17), Rod of Covenent (1d10+17), Void Blade (1d10+11), and Warscythe (2d10+17) all seem very high especially when compared to what those weapons do in Outer Reaches. In fact, theses damage ranges are very close to what the weapons do in Outer Reaches after accounting for the user's Strength Bonus (note that Rod of Covenant and Void Blade do not appear in Outer Reaches).

 

With the damage values as they are written in Tome of Fate, the other melee weapons - Gauntlet of Fire and Staff of Light - appear clearly inferior. Further, the base damages of these weapons are so high that once the sizable Necron Strength Bonuses are added, they "break the game" by being terribly overpowered.

 

I suggest revising the stats for these weapons, but I'm not entirely sure how I want to do that, but here are my initial ideas:

 

Dispersion Shield: Damage 1d10+2 I (A huge reduction in damage, but this isn't intended to be the user's primary offensive weapon.)

 

Hyperphase Sword: Damage 1d10+9 E

 

Rod of Covenant (Melee): Damage 1d10+9 E

 

Void Blade: Damage 1d10+3 R, add Razor Sharp

 

Warscythe: Damage 2d10+9 E

 

Note that these changes will allow Necrons using the Hyperphase Sword and the Warscythe to still put out the 1d10+20/2d10+20 Damage values as seen in Outer Reaches. This is still quite high without hitting the crazy values (1d10+28) that we see in the Tome of Fate. It also means that a Necron Lord using a Gauntlet of Fire or a Staff of Light does't look as foolish. It also means that a Lychguard shield bashing with the Dispersion Shield no longer does 1d10+38(!!!) Damage.


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#2 Terraneaux

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:14 PM

You're really right about this.  While it's hilarious that the Dispersion Shield's damage is so out of control, it's likely the result of someone being lazy and copy/pasting insetead of actually figuring out a weapon's stats.



#3 Routa-maa

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:02 AM

Well when you check ToF stats of Lychguard weapon and Dispersion Shield weapon stats you might notice they are same, 1d10+25. So other should be wrong and I think its Table 3-4: Necron Weapons. But yeah Necrons have always been murder machines ranged or close combat.

And memory serving some what hazy, wasn't there somewhere notice that weapon stats on enemies already contain the Strength Bonus.
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#4 HappyDaze

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:38 AM

Well when you check ToF stats of Lychguard weapon and Dispersion Shield weapon stats you might notice they are same, 1d10+25. So other should be wrong and I think its Table 3-4: Necron Weapons. But yeah Necrons have always been murder machines ranged or close combat.

And memory serving some what hazy, wasn't there somewhere notice that weapon stats on enemies already contain the Strength Bonus.

Yes, I expect them to be powerful, much as they were in Outer Reaches. The issue is how the five weapons I mentioned are oddly overpowered compared to options like the Gauntlet of Fire and the Staff of Light.

 

And you are right about the stats containing Strength Bonus. The stats should show it. That doesn't mean that the stats are balanced properly though. For example, the Dispersion Shield might be intended to have a base damage of 1d10+12 if the other numbers are correct, and this still seems too high compared to the Gauntlet and Staff.


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#5 Routa-maa

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

Yes, I checked Outer Reach and I saw that Dispersion Shield was mentioned there having 1d10+14 after Strength Bonus so I understand why you are proposing that base stat should be 1d10+2.
And I never said that ToF had balanced weapon stats for Necrons.
Maybe they had some copy/paste error when taking weapon stats, some getting double SB and some not. But I'm going to use Outer Reach stats than ToF.
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#6 Dracurian

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:06 AM

 

.....With the damage values as they are written in Tome of Fate, the other melee weapons - Gauntlet of Fire and Staff of Light - appear clearly inferior......

 

Out of context but I have to ask. I never actually looked terribly hard at the stats, but is the Staff of light a melee weapon under Black crusade?

 

It is only a Shooty-shoot weapon in Codex:Necrons, therefore I do not expect it to be terrible good.

 

I admit I may have missed the point. :wacko:


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#7 Routa-maa

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:11 AM

@Dracurian

Staff of Light has ranged & melee stats in Black Crusade.

Edited by Routa-maa, 09 July 2013 - 01:17 AM.

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#8 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:26 AM

Just a thought...

Could Damage and Pen for Necron weapons be listed as high as they are because giving them the Warp Weapon Quality isn't in keeping with their anti-Warp fluff? Perhaps reworking the weapon Damage for these weapons (as some have done) with an assumption the Warp Weapon Quality replaces any Pen values might work better within the rules mechanics? Except name the Quality something else, something befitting the Necrons. 


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#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:13 AM

It's not the Pen that's an issue - it's the absurdly high and inconsistent Damage values that are a problem.

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#10 Dracurian

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:17 AM

@Dracurian

Staff of Light has ranged & melee stats in Black Crusade.

 

Would it not be just a stick in melee? Bolter stock is just a club.

 

Or is the point that it is confusing. :huh:


Edited by Dracurian, 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM.

P.S: Dictionaries ar efor poeple eho can't spel. Obviously I am not one of thym. :P

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#11 Terraneaux

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

The Staff of Light, since its original conception in White Dwarf, has always been a dangerous melee weapon, which I believe was supposed to represent it sucking the heat out of things near the user.  



#12 Routa-maa

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:33 PM

@Dracurian
Staff of Light has ranged & melee stats in Black Crusade.

 
Would it not be just a stick in melee? Bolter stock is just a club.
 
Or is the point that it is confusing. :huh:

Stick which has Balanced & Shocking quality. But in my opinion it has always been more shooty than hacking weapon.
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#13 Terraneaux

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:09 AM

Stick which has Balanced & Shocking quality. But in my opinion it has always been more shooty than hacking weapon.

 

 

Counted as a power weapon, I think, in the TT for quite some time?  In 2e it was about Crozious Arcanum stats iirc, but it's been a while.



#14 Dracurian

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

 

Stick which has Balanced & Shocking quality. But in my opinion it has always been more shooty than hacking weapon.

 

 

Counted as a power weapon, I think, in the TT for quite some time?  In 2e it was about Crozious Arcanum stats iirc, but it's been a while.

 

 

Just checked. 40k 6th ed has staff of light as shooty & just stick in melee. Figgered it was same in RPG. Never let 'em get close enough to find out.


P.S: Dictionaries ar efor poeple eho can't spel. Obviously I am not one of thym. :P

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#15 spaceratcatcher

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Here's another thread on the same topic, which might be helpful. It includes a response (#7) from one of the book's writers: http://community.fan...necron-weapons/



#16 HappyDaze

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:23 PM

Referring to yourself in the third person is kinda weird.

BTW, what's the reason the Dispersion Shield (a 4+ save in tabletop) is PR 65 while the Phase Shifter (a 3+ save in tabletop) is PR 45? These seem backwards to me.

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