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So It's Really $75 to Play?


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#41 Endrik Tenebris

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:58 AM

Rather than seeing EotE as a 60 dollar game that you have to buy a 15 dollar dice set for separately, look at it as a 75 dollar game that gives you the option of only spending 60 dollars by using online dice rollers, regular dice conversion tables, or print out dice covers to convert classic dice into EotE dice.  Selling the dice separately is a really smart idea, honestly.  It makes it easier to purchase exactly what you want.

 

This way, if someone wanted just the rulebook and not the dice, either because they prefer the apps or because they already have an abundance for some reason or another, they can buy it without accruing even more dice.  But, if someone wants the dice without the book, that's an option as well.  If you want dice "included" in the purchase of the book, then it is as simple as ordering a set of dice with the book!  It is really not nearly as big of a deal as a lot of people are making it out to be.


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#42 jamat

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:08 AM

I understand your point of view but I'm not arguing that, I just think that a game that hangs its whole rules mechanic on a specific and specialist set of dice should come with the game otherwise in my personal opinion the game is not complete. 

 

I agree you should be able to get the dice on their own if you want but to sell the book without giving a set of dice with it to allow you to actually play the game is for me a slight oversight.

 

I am in a goo position  that I have a small amount of spare finances at end of each month that I can use for my hobby but some people work on a shoe string budget for gaming and to have to pay for a book then have to pay for the dice to be able to use the book can put people off.

 

Yes there are APPS and you can download crappy sheets of labels to stick onto existing dice or even use the tables in the books to convert to normal dice but these just feel clumsy work rounds and in respect to the tables I'd see slowing play down somewhat.

 

Please note that these are my personal views and I am not trying to start an argument over this and no it isn't a big  issue just for me an annoyance. :)



#43 mouthymerc

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

Technically almost every game hangs its rules on funny dice. Anyone coming new into the hobby is going to have to buy dice which includes D&D or any of the other various RPGs out there. Most companies do not supply dice with their games unless you buy some sort of special boxed set or beginner's game. FFG does supply dice with their beginner's box so they do have an option that includes dice. There isn't a version of D&D that had dice supplied with the Player's Handbook or GMs Guide (that I know of) so I don't see this as being much different. I just think that people have gotten used to games being designed around the dice they already have. Anyways, you can never have too many dice in your collection, and it is always interesting to have new ones.


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#44 nobble

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:09 AM

The old Red and Blue box Basic and Expert DnD came with light blue plastic dice, and a white crayon so you could colour in the numbers, so not only was it a rpg, but also a very basic colouring-in project


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Here was are now.. at the middle.. more and more.. I have the feeling we are getting nowhere...slowly we are getting nowhere and that is a pleasure... it is not irritating to be where one is ... it is only irritating to think one would like to be somewhere else... if we are irritated it is not a pleasure...nothing is a pleasure if we are irritated but suddenly it is a pleasure.. and more and more it is not irritating.. originally we were nowhere and now again we  have the pleasure of slowly being nowhere


#45 Keeop

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

As a WHFR GM the biggest piece of advice I can give any new FFG'ers right now is to buy an extra set of dice, heck maybe two. Just quit whining like a Skywalker and do it. If you think your cost-to-entry is inconvenient now try hopping into a game where the custom dice are out-of-print :)

 

"Grab 'em while you can lest ye suffer the indignities of eBay or end up with a roller app." -- some Ratcatcher


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#46 Mr. Flibble

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

I just don't see where not packaging dice with the core rulebook is supposed to be a strike against FFG. The only recent RPG I know of for which the core rules came packaged with custom dice is Cubicle 7's The One Ring. (I'm not counting C7's Doctor Who RPG, because although there were dice in the box, they were ordinary D6s.) Certainly none of the Fate system games have come packaged with Fudge dice...I had to buy those separately when I picked up the Dresden Files RPG. The point is, packaging dice, even "custom" or "specialty" dice, in core rule sets has not been all that common since boxed sets gave way to hardcover rulebooks. FFG isn't doing anything unusual in that regard.


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#47 fjw70

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:32 AM

As a WHFR GM the biggest piece of advice I can give any new FFG'ers right now is to buy an extra set of dice, heck maybe two. Just quit whining like a Skywalker and do it. If you think your cost-to-entry is inconvenient now try hopping into a game where the custom dice are out-of-print :)
 
"Grab 'em while you can lest ye suffer the indignities of eBay or end up with a roller app." -- some Ratcatcher


I thought about get into WHFR a while ago and the first thing I did was buy up all the dice I could find. i think I got 5 sets. Now maybe I will play it some day. :)

I also have 3 sets of EotE dice on preorder. With the basic game and the set of sticker dice that gives me 5 sets. That should do it.

#48 Keeop

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

 

As a WHFR GM the biggest piece of advice I can give any new FFG'ers right now is to buy an extra set of dice, heck maybe two. Just quit whining like a Skywalker and do it. If you think your cost-to-entry is inconvenient now try hopping into a game where the custom dice are out-of-print :)
 
"Grab 'em while you can lest ye suffer the indignities of eBay or end up with a roller app." -- some Ratcatcher


I thought about get into WHFR a while ago and the first thing I did was buy up all the dice I could find. i think I got 5 sets. Now maybe I will play it some day. :)

I also have 3 sets of EotE dice on preorder. With the basic game and the set of sticker dice that gives me 5 sets. That should do it.

 

I'm super thankful the Warhammer dice are going back into production. I'm going to buy several sets. All I have right now are the ones from the Core box and the pack from the GM kit and while serviceable, I could certainly use some more. I'll have 4 sets of Edge dice total, which for a table of 4 players should be fine. I love having plenty of dice so players can be building their pools prior to their initiative slot.



#49 Crimson_red

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

Overall the start up costs for this game do feel a little high and I strongly suspect, out of my group of gamers, I'll be the only one buying in (I'm getting the core rulebook, GM's Kit, 2 sets of dice, and already own the beta and beginner game), but considering it is a licensed property, and the general cost of ttrpgs these days, it probably about right.

 

I am one of those gamers who is on a shoe-string budget, and if the game had come out when originally scheduled, I wouldn't have been able to afford it, but I have managed to set aside enough cash in the preceding months, and in the past, I've made due in tighter circumstances for previous Star Wars games (The RCR was probably the most difficult purchase considering the 'weak' Canadian dollar, the taxes, and my lack of work when it came out).

 

 

To summarize that meandering post, its expensive, but it has good reason to be, those of us who struggle financially can find a way to make it work if we want too, and let me add, if I get as much gameplay out of this as Saga Edition, it will be well worth the investment, If I get as much time in as d6 than the entire game line will be worth it!


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#50 jamat

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

Mr flibble with respect I have not once said it was a strike against FF for not having the dice I have stated I would be buying other books in this range. At not time have I been negative about the game or FF.

I was posting my personal view on the subject and thought it odd that a game that needs special dice to be able to play don't supply them with the game.

I'm quite happy to agree to disagree I'm not here to argue but to have constructive discussions

#51 Colyer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

Mr flibble with respect I have not once said it was a strike against FF for not having the dice I have stated I would be buying other books in this range. At not time have I been negative about the game or FF.
I was posting my personal view on the subject and thought it odd that a game that needs special dice to be able to play don't supply them with the game.
I'm quite happy to agree to disagree I'm not here to argue but to have constructive discussions

Believing Fantasy Flight has made the wrong choice, made an oversight, and is selling an incomplete game is completely negative. It doesn't have to be part of a larger point, and it can be perfectly reasonable, but it's still negative.
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#52 CharlieBananas

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

Got to say that now I have the game I can't believe how good a value it is, it's beautiful and packed to the brim!



#53 signoftheserpent

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.



#54 lupex

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

The funny thing is that most of us are really happy with the game,dice, and concept. It is really nice that you have taken the time to try to diminish our excitement for our new Star Wars goodies, thanks for that.

If you are not happy with the decisions made by FFG please feel free to protest by not buying their products or commenting on their forums, that'll teach them.

#55 CharlieBananas

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.

You own the book then? If not then you are talking out of your backside... Even if I didn't buy another book in the line I have enough here to keep playing for years!



#56 signoftheserpent

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

I don't need to own it. This is FFG's mission statement.



#57 CharlieBananas

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:09 PM

If you don't like FFG's games then don't buy them, but why are you crying about it? What do you hope to gain by trolling? I'm not going to post anything more to you, I've got a great game and you've missed out, but that descision was ours to make, nuff said!



#58 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

The old Red and Blue box Basic and Expert DnD came with light blue plastic dice, and a white crayon so you could colour in the numbers, so not only was it a rpg, but also a very basic colouring-in project

 

:D

 

So that's what that crayon was for? Well, there's that mystery solved. 

 

I'm perfectly happy with the format FFG have chosen, but there certainly would have been no harm in having a 'Deluxe' set - a cheap, throwaway cardboard sleeve that contains the book, the GM kit, and the dice (for the appropriate price, of course).

 

Only as an option, though. Because if every copy of the book came with dice, you bet we'd have lots of people who bought the Beginner Game crying because they're being 'forced' to buy another set of dice!  :P



#59 Endrik Tenebris

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.

This isn't "one third of the experience."  It is the first episode of a three-part RPG book series system.  Do you complain when you go to the first movie in a trilogy and you don't get the other two right then and there because they haven't finished them yet?

 

RPG systems are *ALWAYS* expensive because they are meant to be bought over long periods of time or between multiple people in one group.

 

And you *CAN* play a force user or a Jedi in this system.  You can't play an ultra-powerful Jedi Master without homebrewing some extra rules or adding extra forcepowers, but I think that's entirely reasonable.  Just because they don't have the superdeluxe jedi book out yet does NOT mean you should not let people play force sensitives.  The option is there, and the system for it is very promising.  I personally can't wait to see what else we get for force sensitives as we go.  Rather than being negative and saying "GOD WHY CAN'T I BE THIS" you should instead say "Cool, look at all the stuff I can play now, and the more stuff that I can be later when they finish it!"


FFG Star Wars RPG Content - Periodic Updates.  Species, items, and more:  https://www.dropbox....3x57/qXerqp6BHq

FFG Star Wars Mass Effect Conversion - In Progress:   https://www.dropbox....woxz/xr0nnETGK4

 

 


#60 Mr. Flibble

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

So that's what that crayon was for? Well, there's that mystery solved. 

 

 I ate mine.


"Mr. Flibble is very cross."

--Arnold J. Rimmer





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