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Tiered Difficulties for Parry and Dodge


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#1 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:59 AM

It seems Parry and Dodge are nearly always Challenging Tests- that is if the PC/NPC is Skilled. I was considering introducing tiered Difficulties for these Tests. It was while I was reading another forum post- during which someone made mention that Ranged attacks shouldn't be dodged as easily as the RAW suggest*- that I began to think further on these proposed Difficulties.

*Something about being able to Dodge a bullet is nearly impossible, even for superhumans. Like "BANG!", then "Oh, crap!" (dodges) I'm not at all concerned about the supposed impossibility, truthfully. Parry and Dodge are Reactions, and in the context of their placement as Reactions and the mechanics this implies, I'm content to let them stand…to a point.

Would it then be unreasonable to impose a Difficulty to Dodge and Parry Tests to reflect this supposed "impossibility"? We are talking about PCs and NPCs that are (for the most part) a cut quite above the stereotypical (anti)Imperial dreg.

I'm proposing the following as a nod to those who think Dodging bullets should be next-to-impossible, and they would apply toward the Parry Skill as well:

  • Single Attack/Shot- Hard Test (-20)
  • Swift Attack/Semi-Auto- Difficult Test (-10)
  • Lightning Attack/Full Auto- Challenging Test (+/-0)
  • All of the above are Standard Difficulty Modifiers; other Difficulty Modifiers may apply as the GM deems appropriate (is the target Surprised, lighting/terrain conditions, etc)

 

Thoughts?

 

EDIT: Per Sazabi's suggestion, I have reversed the Difficulties.


Edited by Brother Orpheo, 06 July 2013 - 04:07 PM.

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#2 Sazabi

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:51 PM

I understand your issue, sometimes it feels off that PCs will dodge every bullet that comes their way. It's not that they actually dodge the bullet after it's fired though, the character is just jinking and weaving to avoid having the enemy get a good bead on them The thing is that you need lots of degrees of success to dodge semi/full auto already, and this change would make such weapons even MORE lethal (which can be good or bad). I would almost be tempted to reverse your modifiers (so -20 to dodge single, -10 for semi, etc), as a single shot would be more well aimed, while full is more random.



#3 Terraneaux

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

I always imagined the dodging of ranged attacks to represent moving in such a way that it made the target harder to hit, sticking to cover, presenting a small cross-section to your attacker, and so on, as opposed to literally dodging a bullet.  


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#4 HappyDaze

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

I always imagined the dodging of ranged attacks to represent moving in such a way that it made the target harder to hit, sticking to cover, presenting a small cross-section to your attacker, and so on, as opposed to literally dodging a bullet.

If that were true, then taking the necessary action would provide a penalty to all incoming shots (its hard to move in a manner that just reduces the chance of one attacker hitting), but evading would take either a half or full action. I'd prefer it if it were set up that way, but its really not - you really do react to the individual attack and "dodge" the bullet or Las shot.

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#5 Balenorn

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

I think people need to be a little more open minded when it comes to dodging in roleplay games.

 

The action is supposed to represent the target being aware that the shooter is taking aim at them, and judging the exact moment the trigger is about to be pulled, and being already into evasive manouvers as the trigger is pulled, hence why it is limited to once per round unless you have special talents that is, and why you cannot dodge if you are surprised..you have no awarness of which directing the gun is pointing.

 

Looking at dodging this way has always made it more palatable for me, just imagine it as jinking, twisting, jumping, ducking, basically what ever floats your boat, simultaneously with the shooter pulling the trigger, not as a shot is fired and then they react to it deal. so it is almost like a feint action but for ranged attacks.

 

I have fired weapons in real life, and firing at moving targets is pretty hard, you have to estimate where you think they are going to be (deflection shooting) so if you are guessing on where they are going to be, and they are aware you are pointing a gun at them and are trying to work out where they are going next, it is not so hard now to grasp how dodging works is it?



#6 Balenorn

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

After giving it some more thought on a smoke break! that to answer your question properly, a simple and elegant solution for you would be simply make degress of success play a part in the process.

 

So shooters degree's of success vrs targets degree's of success in dodging, this would allow good shooters with much exp spent to nullify random chance some what, and help against characters with high dodge scores.

 

My old Scum Character from Dark Heresy had a 75% dodge chance, and dodging was far far to easy, adding degree's of success needing to be beaten, would have added some spice that is for sure.



#7 Ghaundan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

Personally I always had people choose if they wanted to try to dodge or not before they know if they're hit, seemed more realistic, made them prioritize their dodgers and worked well so far. I like the idea of success matter on high lvl singelshot weapons though, full auto already has this in place afterall.



#8 Mister Zipangu

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:56 AM

 

I always imagined the dodging of ranged attacks to represent moving in such a way that it made the target harder to hit, sticking to cover, presenting a small cross-section to your attacker, and so on, as opposed to literally dodging a bullet.

If that were true, then taking the necessary action would provide a penalty to all incoming shots (its hard to move in a manner that just reduces the chance of one attacker hitting), but evading would take either a half or full action. I'd prefer it if it were set up that way, but its really not - you really do react to the individual attack and "dodge" the bullet or Las shot.

 

While I see your point, I think you are forgetting the purpose of this particular rule.

 

If the dodge was merely a penalty to the attackers roll, then a great deal of game participation is taken away from the player. All he can do is sit passively and wait for the GM to tell him if he should deduct wounds or fate points.

Not good game design.

 

By letting the player roll actively for his dodge (a otherwise "passive" action of keeping ones head down and weaving while moving) the player feels that he is part of the action, even when he is in fact completely defensive.

 

Realistically the only deciding factor of a shot hitting is how well the shooter can predict his target. But in a game that is just not fun.

 

For this reason, in my games, dodges are described as keeping in cover and out of lines of fire, but is rolled by the defender.

 

Also we did consider making penalties to defenses based on attacker successes, but found the result entirely too random, dangerous and costly in fate points.

This may very well be a quality to some groups. To us it was just boring as there are plenty of other ways to make combat exciting.



#9 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:55 AM

I will be definitely implementing DH2.0 Beta feature, where Evasion test (Dodge/Parry) are opposed tests against attackers WS/BS. Could help a lot.


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#10 Brother Praetus

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:08 PM

I don't know, I think I like the idea of being a futuristic Chiun.

-=Brother Praetus=-


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#11 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

"...with crubbed feet."

"I zink I can do zomezing."

 

lol


Edited by Brother Orpheo, 31 July 2013 - 08:22 AM.

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#12 markjosol

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:15 AM

protected by a bodyguard of lies."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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