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Omnissian Rod - Question concerning pew pew ability


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#1 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:26 AM

Hullo everyone!

My Magos recently gained Rank 11 and I thought it was time to upgrade my already formidable Omnisian Axe to an Omnissian Rod. Mostly for the power trip, as my character rarely gets into situations that require his personal combat skills to come into pay. 

Since it's been awhile since I've properly read the description of the weapon, I just noticed that it is not only a melee weapon, but there's a built-in plasma rifle (Phased Plasma Rifle) as well. This brings up a few questions for me.

First of all, the Phased Plasma Rifle is listed as an Integrated Weapon just a few pages above, meaning there's no clip size or reload. This would be understandable in the case of an Integrated Weapon, but when it comes to the Omnissian Rod, do these qualities still apply? Does this also mean that the Magos with the Rod can rapid fire (4 shots per round) a plasma weapon without the threat of overheating or needing to reload for an indefinite time? 

(The fact that plasma weapons can be integrated and require no reloading is another interesting question, since plasma weapons require special ammo to make them fire, you normally can't just power them from an electric power source such as the potentia coil, unlike regular las weapons.) 

My second question is also concerning the plasma rifle ability of the weapon. The Omnissian Rod possesses a design which is far from effective when it comes to ranged combat (you can hardly aim down a rod with a big ass eagle at the end of it), but if you ignore this minor detail, do you need efficiency with basic plasma weapons to fire the Rod effectively? Or perhaps I should pick up Exocit Weapon (Omnissian Rod)? Or do I go with the highly unlikely explanation that since it's a melee weapon, I'll just use my melee-weapon expertise? 

Thoughts, ideas and comments are appreciated in advance! Thanks!

Seqvirin



#2 Jargal

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

Since it's been awhile since I've properly read the description of the weapon, I just noticed that it is not only a melee weapon, but there's a built-in plasma rifle (Phased Plasma Rifle) as well.

This brings up a few questions for me.

First of all, the Phased Plasma Rifle is listed as an Integrated Weapon just a few pages above, meaning there's no clip size or reload. This would be understandable in the case of an Integrated Weapon, but when it comes to the Omnissian Rod, do these qualities still apply? Does this also mean that the Magos with the Rod can rapid fire (4 shots per round) a plasma weapon without the threat of overheating or needing to reload for an indefinite time? 

Well, technically it says: "…energy can also be channelled along the length of the rod, and fired in a series of blasts that have a similar effect to a plasma weapon…" that I understand as an alternative use of the power-field generator, not a built-in additional weapon. So really, there is no clip, no reload, no overheat and it can shoot in semi&full-auto. I want two of these! :-)

(The fact that plasma weapons can be integrated and require no reloading is another interesting question, since plasma weapons require special ammo to make them fire, you normally can't just power them from an electric power source such as the potentia coil, unlike regular las weapons.) 

Phased Plasma Rifle is the only such example. All other plasma weapons should follow rules from p.58: "Integrated Plasma and Melta weapons double their standart Clip Size … Plasma weapons can still Overheat, although they lose the Recharge Quality".

The Omnissian Rod possesses a design which is far from effective when it comes to ranged combat (you can hardly aim down a rod with a big ass eagle at the end of it), but if you ignore this minor detail, do you need efficiency with basic plasma weapons to fire the Rod effectively? Or perhaps I should pick up Exocit Weapon (Omnissian Rod)? Or do I go with the highly unlikely explanation that since it's a melee weapon, I'll just use my melee-weapon expertise? 

I would chose the option with an Exotic Weapon (Omnissian Rod).



#3 Hakaisha

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:29 AM

Phased Plasma Rifle is not a plasma weapon the effect of an integrated plasma weapon is double clip size and loses recharge.

Integrated Las weapons get unlimited ammo



#4 Jargal

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

Phased Plasma Rifle is not a plasma weapon

 

The Lathe Worlds, p.60, Phased Plasma Rifle article: "Very few forge worlds possess the knowledge to create plasma weapons ... the Phased Plasma Rifle does away with many of the drawbacks common to Imperial plasma weaponry".



#5 Hakaisha

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 02:33 PM

I am going about with rules instead of fluff, it says that only las weapons get the unlimited ammo quality, because the weapon is basically a las gun boosted up to 11, and they don't lose the overheat quality. Overall the fluff is irrelevant, as according to fluff power armor is exclusively made for only space marines, adeptus sororitas, inquisitors, rogue traders and sisters of battle, making power armor for normal sized men a rarity of near unique or unique instead of very rare. Do remember that eviscerators in the fluff got powerfields, crude ones, but a power fields non the less.

 

TL;DR

Fluff is irrelevant, by the rules it is a las weapon



#6 Jargal

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:35 PM

By the rules, all the rules on p.58 apply only to the creation of a new integrated weapon as evidenced by the section title: "Creating Integrated Weapon".

To be honest, I do think that the rules for the PPR are a little strange, but what is written - it is written.



#7 Morangias

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:09 AM

I am going about with rules instead of fluff, it says that only las weapons get the unlimited ammo quality, because the weapon is basically a las gun boosted up to 11, and they don't lose the overheat quality. Overall the fluff is irrelevant, as according to fluff power armor is exclusively made for only space marines, adeptus sororitas, inquisitors, rogue traders and sisters of battle, making power armor for normal sized men a rarity of near unique or unique instead of very rare. Do remember that eviscerators in the fluff got powerfields, crude ones, but a power fields non the less.

 

TL;DR

Fluff is irrelevant, by the rules it is a las weapon

tumblr_menghmmr3I1qbvaf3o1_500.gif

 

Specific rules override general rules. Specific rule is, this integrated plasma weapon never runs out of ammo, overriding the general rule of integrated plasma weapons still needing ammo.


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#8 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:11 AM

First of all, thanks for the feedback and suggestions regarding the Omnissian Rod's shooting ability. Nevertheless, I sort of expected this conversation to deviate towards the Phased Plasma Rifle itself. :) 

 

Specific rules override general rules. Specific rule is, this integrated plasma weapon never runs out of ammo, overriding the general rule of integrated plasma weapons still needing ammo.

 

And this is why the Phased Plasma Rifle looks wrong to me. According to the WH40K wiki, plasma weapons operate using raw plasma fuel, which consists of highly dangerous and volatile hydrogen, which is compressed and contained precariously within reinforced flasks in a gaseous state. I understand that PPR is an archeotech, using forgotten arcane technomagic to create, but I have my doubts that a Plasma weapon, no matter how special, should be able to operate without its unique ammo. (Unless the tech-priest's body itself is capable of creating and storing the ammo.)



#9 Hakaisha

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

First of all, thanks for the feedback and suggestions regarding the Omnissian Rod's shooting ability. Nevertheless, I sort of expected this conversation to deviate towards the Phased Plasma Rifle itself. :)

 

Specific rules override general rules. Specific rule is, this integrated plasma weapon never runs out of ammo, overriding the general rule of integrated plasma weapons still needing ammo.

 

And this is why the Phased Plasma Rifle looks wrong to me. According to the WH40K wiki, plasma weapons operate using raw plasma fuel, which consists of highly dangerous and volatile hydrogen, which is compressed and contained precariously within reinforced flasks in a gaseous state. I understand that PPR is an archeotech, using forgotten arcane technomagic to create, but I have my doubts that a Plasma weapon, no matter how special, should be able to operate without its unique ammo. (Unless the tech-priest's body itself is capable of creating and storing the ammo.)

again the reason why it can't be an actual plasma weapon, it's more akin to a Hellgun with more power, as you can see from the damage 2d10 that is it, 2d10, while a plasma weapon does either 1d10 or 2d10+6 or more



#10 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:43 AM

again the reason why it can't be an actual plasma weapon, it's more akin to a Hellgun with more power, as you can see from the damage 2d10 that is it, 2d10, while a plasma weapon does either 1d10 or 2d10+6 or more

 

Ummm... are you suggesting that a weapon's type (las, plasma, solid projectile, bolt, rocket, melta) depends on how you roll its damage and not how it operates (i.e. using energy cells, solid slugs, bolt rounds, plasma flasks, melta canisters)?



#11 Morangias

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

And this is why the Phased Plasma Rifle looks wrong to me. According to the WH40K wiki, plasma weapons operate using raw plasma fuel, which consists of highly dangerous and volatile hydrogen, which is compressed and contained precariously within reinforced flasks in a gaseous state. I understand that PPR is an archeotech, using forgotten arcane technomagic to create, but I have my doubts that a Plasma weapon, no matter how special, should be able to operate without its unique ammo. (Unless the tech-priest's body itself is capable of creating and storing the ammo.)

Hydrogen exists in any human-habitable environment in large quantities. Presumably the gun just distills it's ammo from ambient moisture, compresses and supercharges it using the nigh-unlimited power supply of the Potentia Coil.

 

again the reason why it can't be an actual plasma weapon, it's more akin to a Hellgun with more power, as you can see from the damage 2d10 that is it, 2d10, while a plasma weapon does either 1d10 or 2d10+6 or more

Again, putting the cart before the horse. The type of the weapon may inform it's game profile, but a game profile cannot inform the type of the weapon.

 

By your logic, MP lascannon isn't a las weapon.


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#12 Hakaisha

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 02:36 AM

 

again the reason why it can't be an actual plasma weapon, it's more akin to a Hellgun with more power, as you can see from the damage 2d10 that is it, 2d10, while a plasma weapon does either 1d10 or 2d10+6 or more

 

Ummm... are you suggesting that a weapon's type (las, plasma, solid projectile, bolt, rocket, melta) depends on how you roll its damage and not how it operates (i.e. using energy cells, solid slugs, bolt rounds, plasma flasks, melta canisters)?

 

It depends on the ammo, the ammo used here is a potentia coil, and you can't fuel a flamer with such.

 

 

 

And this is why the Phased Plasma Rifle looks wrong to me. According to the WH40K wiki, plasma weapons operate using raw plasma fuel, which consists of highly dangerous and volatile hydrogen, which is compressed and contained precariously within reinforced flasks in a gaseous state. I understand that PPR is an archeotech, using forgotten arcane technomagic to create, but I have my doubts that a Plasma weapon, no matter how special, should be able to operate without its unique ammo. (Unless the tech-priest's body itself is capable of creating and storing the ammo.)

Hydrogen exists in any human-habitable environment in large quantities. Presumably the gun just distills it's ammo from ambient moisture, compresses and supercharges it using the nigh-unlimited power supply of the Potentia Coil.

 

again the reason why it can't be an actual plasma weapon, it's more akin to a Hellgun with more power, as you can see from the damage 2d10 that is it, 2d10, while a plasma weapon does either 1d10 or 2d10+6 or more

Again, putting the cart before the horse. The type of the weapon may inform it's game profile, but a game profile cannot inform the type of the weapon.

 

By your logic, MP lascannon isn't a las weapon.

 

Unlike the MP Las Cannon, the Phased Plasma Rifle is stated as an exotic weapon, it's like calling the sting ray rifle a SP weapon, or the "Flametongue" Howdah Pistol, Fykos Forge for a flamer.



#13 Morangias

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:59 AM

Whatever, dude. I won't force you to be right.


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#14 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

Phased Plasma Rifle is not a plasma weapon the effect of an integrated plasma weapon is double clip size and loses recharge.

Integrated Las weapons get unlimited ammo

 

You're confusing the rules for creating new integrated weapons with the weapons common to the Crimson Guard.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.





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