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Career change restriction?


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#1 Gorrath

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:38 PM

Is there some kind of restriction against an early career change?
Can a player create his character then immediately switch to another career without spending any advances?

We're about to start our first campaign using this system and one of the player wants to play a thief but he wants his character to be able to read and write
so his idea is to start as a human Burgher since it has education then immediately switch to Thief. Those 2 careers share 3 traits and he's human so the career
switch would be free.

Is this legit?

Thanks

 



#2 nephtys

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

well, in terms of rules that might be possible, but in terms of play i would say that qualifies as cheating. if you want to have education, pay more at character creation for it. education would be 2 advances as it is an advanced skill plus 1 as it is not in his career. that is not really specified in the rules i think but it is less akward.

creating a character with a career just to aquire a skill really takes advantage of the system. if you want to play a thief, play a thief and pay for what he cant normally do!



#3 Matchstickman

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:05 AM

It's NOT cheating. It is using the rules in a way to your advantage that was not neccessarily intended but it is definitely not breaking the rules.

Doing something that is explicitly against the rules would be cheating… but as this is an RPG the ultimate arbitor is not the person who wrote the rules, but the person who is running the rules, the GM has final call and can change them however they see fit for their campaign. If you're the GM you need to answer it yourself, if not bring it up with your GM but in both cases ask yourself this question, does this action/rule add or detract from the fun of the game for more people?

 

EDIT: I know that some people impose a "minimum of X advances before swapping careers" ruls to prevent this, talk it over/explain your reasoning before imposing your will!



#4 khaali

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

Career seen only as a mean to write specific skills on the character, are a sad way to play wfrp IMHO.

What is the background of this character?

 - If he was raised in a moderatly wealthy family and studied to become a bailiff, then, because of a incident, lost everything and in order to survive had to became what he was taught to hate: a thief -> then OK for creating a Bailiff, than change career

- If is has he always lived in criminality, in the underworld, and was taught how to read and write by an educated criminal mentor or a old scholar in his neibourhood who took pity of this young boy -> then he creates a thief and pay extra points for read/write.



#5 Emirikol

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:58 AM

Was it the GMs toolkit that suggested that there be at least 5 advances in a career before a person could switch (suggested houserule?)

 

jh



#6 Keeop

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:28 AM

Would that players wishes actually not be better satisfied by utilizing non-career advances? Pg. 45 of the Players Handbook covers this, unless I'm misunderstanding the situation.



#7 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

Was it the GMs toolkit that suggested that there be at least 5 advances in a career before a person could switch (suggested houserule?)

 

 

It's in the hard-bound Player's Guide, and the suggestion is sadly a mere 4 advances. 5 would be a better rule, IMHO, given that there are careers (Mystic, Commoner, and Scribe all spring to mind)  that provide 3 or 4 of a single Advance type. If you're willing to slum for fortune advances, there's nothing holding you back.

 

 

Would that players wishes actually not be better satisfied by utilizing non-career advances? Pg. 45 of the Players Handbook covers this, unless I'm misunderstanding the situation.

 

That is less than ideal given that Education is an advanced skill. In order to be literate, you must Acquire Education, which costs 4 advances if it's non-career. If you can find a career transition that costs 0 to 1, it'll be cheaper to career hop.

 

Which brings up a tangential question... why the heck is literacy so darned expensive? Seems like there ought to at least be "Barely-Literate" Talent available for those who want it.


Edited by r_b_bergstrom, 03 July 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#8 evilidler

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

 

Which brings up a tangential question... why the heck is literacy so darned expensive? Seems like there ought to at least be "Barely-Literate" Talent available for those who want it.

 

It's a **** society. No public education system. What you know is limited by who you know and who your parents are/were :)

 

But a Barely Literate skill to let characters get the gist of posters and signs could be house-ruled in.


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#9 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 03:10 AM

When i made my Coachman, i spent the 4 points to obtain Education for him so he could read and write, and understand where places were in the world.

 

What your saying is within the rules if he randomly got the first career with education, and its the advantage of being human to easily change careers.

 

But wouldnt he have to take his starter skills/actions etc in Burgher and to play at least one adventure before changing career? Dont think you can change careers in character creation.


Edited by DurakBlackaxe, 05 July 2013 - 03:12 AM.


#10 Keeop

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 07:27 AM

This will probably just be a gm call for the OP. Fortunately in my groups I only have a player or two that indulge in power gaming so it doesn't come up very often. Given the lore, education seems to be in a fine place cost-wise. I suppose if the player can make an interesting case for how this would impact the character, party, and overall narrative then a gm could allow the hop at creation, although with the frequency and reality of death in the Old World I'd question if all the fussy accounting would pay off in the end. 


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#11 nephtys

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

the thing with reading is generally hard.

after discussing it in long term with my plaers we ruled like that:

 

a character without education will be able to read certain things like the local bill-board, as long as stuff on there is written in bold letters. they wont be able to read cursive at all. they will also not be able to write.

 

it's easy to explain: after we visited the local cementry, because it was on our way anyways, we saw that we may be able to read the stuff on the graves that were made more than 150 years ago but we dont understand ever letter/word in there. we will also not be able to write like that.

i guess that is pretty fair...


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