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Countering the psyker


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#1 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:15 AM

'sup guys

 

I'm using our campaign psyker as a benchmark for my Scum (just took the Warp Dabbler a.rank :P ) but I can't find a way to overcome him in case of troubles.

<6m -> holocaust

<15m -> move+incinerate

<50m -> firestorm

 

firestorm is the lowest threat and it gets circa 6d10 E damage. No human can survive it.

Hexagramatic wards? not that useful

I'm out of idea.

Favoured of the Warp included, so usually he doesn't get dangerous phenomena.

I took Warp Dabbler for fear, I'm not heretic D:



#2 FieserMoep

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:31 AM

Sharpshooter at 300 range or a stubber emplacement with some shooty guys at a higher range in an ambush situation.



#3 fortuneNext

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

Be a Untouchable / Pariah - Story over.



#4 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

FieserMoep said:

Sharpshooter at 300 range or a stubber emplacement with some shooty guys at a higher range in an ambush situation.

I would like to chime in on a few things, since yet again the 'What if my guardman is like 10000 miles away  with a super awesome weapon' commet, that ALWAYS appears every single post about how psykers are not in fact broken…

this.

fortuneNext said:

Be a Untouchable / Pariah - Story over.

lame.
is "be someone else" even an answer? or "call the culexus temple"?

 



#5 FieserMoep

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:24 AM

When did I say a psyker is not broken? So for this reason your comment just makes no sense. The OP asked for a way to deal with a psyker and an ambush is quite an easy way to do so without railroading in a psyker counter. How can you easily set up such an ambush? Get the range advantage! How do you use the range advantage the best? With a Sniper or Heavy Weapon! Just as easy as that. A psyker becomes insanly strong in combat if he can prepare himself and if your enemies act like stupid brats. If they know there is a pskyer the will most likely ambush the party and focus fire him into oblivion.



#6 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:03 AM

FieserMoep said:

When did I say a psyker is not broken? So for this reason your comment just makes no sense. The OP asked for a way to deal with a psyker and an ambush is quite an easy way to do so without railroading in a psyker counter. How can you easily set up such an ambush? Get the range advantage! How do you use the range advantage the best? With a Sniper or Heavy Weapon! Just as easy as that. A psyker becomes insanly strong in combat if he can prepare himself and if your enemies act like stupid brats. If they know there is a pskyer the will most likely ambush the party and focus fire him into oblivion.

yup

flesh like iron (+4 Tbonus + molten man (damage/2)= ;_;

 

something at medium-short range? just in case :

 



#7 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

One very effective manner by which Psykers can be countered is through the use of other Psykers. Spend some XP on a Psyker Contact (aka bodyguard) or three (see The Inquisitor's Handbook).

If the issue is one of worrying your "ally" Psyker will turn his gift/curse upon your Character, ask yourself this simple question: Why would my ally do that? Is it provocation? Do you suspect your actions will provoke such an outcome, and if so, why? Is it merely Player megalomania? Does the Psyker's Player enjoy tormenting other Players or "lording over" them through PC assassination? In any case, you have to ask yourself why a fellow Player (of any PC Career) would turn his/her Character's abilities against an ally. If there is insufficient reason (in game, in Character) the GM should simply disallow the activity or behavior, plain and simple. If there is sufficient reason, you need to take a closer look at your own contribution to the conflict.

Saying you are a Warp Dabbler out of necessity, because it is a tool you intend to use to aid in your survival, and chiming in with "not because I'm corrupted" is a weak stance. A Sanctioned Psyker knows full well the sacrifice and hardship required to retain his/her life with opportunity to use the gift/curse in the Emperor's name and by the Emperor's will, Warp Dabblers do not, they haven't "earned their stripes", and they are more a potential conduit through which the damnation of an entire Acolyte Cell (or an entire world) may meet its doom…or worse…than a Sanctionite.


=][=


#8 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:09 AM

Brother Orpheo said:

One very effective manner by which Psykers can be countered is through the use of other Psykers. Spend some XP on a Psyker Contact (aka bodyguard) or three (see The Inquisitor's Handbook).

If the issue is one of worrying your "ally" Psyker will turn his gift/curse upon your Character, ask yourself this simple question: Why would my ally do that? Is it provocation? Do you suspect your actions will provoke such an outcome, and if so, why? Is it merely Player megalomania? Does the Psyker's Player enjoy tormenting other Players or "lording over" them through PC assassination? In any case, you have to ask yourself why a fellow Player (of any PC Career) would turn his/her Character's abilities against an ally. If there is insufficient reason (in game, in Character) the GM should simply disallow the activity or behavior, plain and simple. If there is sufficient reason, you need to take a closer look at your own contribution to the conflict.

Saying you are a Warp Dabbler out of necessity, because it is a tool you intend to use to aid in your survival, and chiming in with "not because I'm corrupted" is a weak stance. A Sanctioned Psyker knows full well the sacrifice and hardship required to retain his/her life with opportunity to use the gift/curse in the Emperor's name and by the Emperor's will, Warp Dabblers do not, they haven't "earned their stripes", and they are more a potential conduit through which the damnation of an entire Acolyte Cell (or an entire world) may meet its doom…or worse…than a Sanctionite.

Friday night the psyker went full-radical, entering a daemonic pact D:

And he's tutoring me - i need someone with Forbidden Lore (Warp)

He's my closiest ally, but as I said i'm just planning ahead IN CASE things goes horribly wrong…
Now I'll just look for some useful sorcery…



#9 FieserMoep

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:05 AM

I gues this psyker is not always sustaining these abilities? If so the GM should have a clear talk with him or bring in some consequences. Nonstop activated psypowers are a beacon in the warp and he will get consumed sooner than later.

The advantage of an ambush is to hit someone (i.e. a Psyker) before they can activate their defensives (i.e. Psy-Powers/Force Fields) or can get into cover. With the right weapon and some luck an insta-kill is uninvitable. That is not a gentlmen approach but at last this is a bad universe we are playin hin, and fair-play is definatly not the most important thing, especialy if a psyker is the target. Also booby-traps work great against low-med perception characteristics. There is a lot of ways you just have to think outside the box and the wild-west duell were you will be most likely in an disatvantage unless you have gear or talents to cancel out psykic powers.



#10 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:40 PM

Well, if he considers you his closest ally and you are planning ahead, just make sure to poison his food or water when the time comes and go out for a nice little stroll in the park so he can't do anything nasty in the last few seconds of his life. Other prearranged home accidents can also be lethal with a little bit of creativeness. (Just make sure the other psyker isn't capable of reading your mind or precognition to warn him of the surprise.)

If you want go to toe-to-toe, well, the other posts have covered that aspect already.



#11 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:55 AM


Magos Seqvirin said:



 


Well, if he considers you his closest ally and you are planning ahead, just make sure to poison his food or water when the time comes and go out for a nice little stroll in the park so he can't do anything nasty in the last few seconds of his life. Other prearranged home accidents can also be lethal with a little bit of creativeness. (Just make sure the other psyker isn't capable of reading your mind or precognition to warn him of the surprise.)


If you want go to toe-to-toe, well, the other posts have covered that aspect already.


 


yup.


 


also, meltabomb in the backpack :3


 


On equipment.


It is said Fire damage affects body


All Damage from fire is counted as Energy Damage for the purpose of Critical Damage, and applied to the body


so i found out something


Carapace Chest Plate + Hexagramatic Wards, 3100 thrones. 12 AP versus psychic powers (also, pyromancy powers)


or


Good quality Carapace Chest Plate + Hexagramatic Wards 4300 thrones, 14 AP


that's a lot of gold, affordable onyl to noble-born (I still wonder about 2030k equipments in dark heresy books, meh)


plus keeping at range, 'cause holocaust and incinerate ignores Toughness and armor (i'd say hexagramatic wards override that, but there is no "power hierarchy" about that) and hope a 6d10+12 firestorm leave a chance to retaliate.



#12 Magos Seqvirin

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:18 PM

If I'm not mistaken, Hexagrammatic Wards override warp damage bypassing armour. However, the Wards only work for the armour, so if the damage breaches the armour, the Toughness will still be ignored. 

Although the discussion is focused on weapons and armour, but when facing a psyker in combat, it is important to consider the anti-psyker Talents available, such as Strong Minded, Mental Fortress and Resistance (Psychics) (all combined into the Paragon Talent "Mental Aegis"). Of course, by the time you are able to buy these Talents you are no longer a low level Acolyte, but close to becoming a Throne Agent. Nevertheless, if you get hit by a psychic attack and the Hexagrammatic Warded armour (which is also unlikely to be possessed by low level acolytes) and the Talents are not enough of a protection, the backlash from Mental Fortress is always a nice free damage you may dish out at the enemy psyker. 



#13 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:49 AM

Magos Seqvirin said:

If I'm not mistaken, Hexagrammatic Wards override warp damage bypassing armour. However, the Wards only work for the armour, so if the damage breaches the armour, the Toughness will still be ignored. 

Although the discussion is focused on weapons and armour, but when facing a psyker in combat, it is important to consider the anti-psyker Talents available, such as Strong Minded, Mental Fortress and Resistance (Psychics) (all combined into the Paragon Talent "Mental Aegis"). Of course, by the time you are able to buy these Talents you are no longer a low level Acolyte, but close to becoming a Throne Agent. Nevertheless, if you get hit by a psychic attack and the Hexagrammatic Warded armour (which is also unlikely to be possessed by low level acolytes) and the Talents are not enough of a protection, the backlash from Mental Fortress is always a nice free damage you may dish out at the enemy psyker. 

yep, but only a few psy powers offer a Resist test : blinding flash e wall of fire - over.

rank 6 here but yes mental fortress is a "nice" but not so useful when you are dead



#14 Phi6891

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:48 AM

Looking through several books I've found these items to deal with Psykers.

Inquisitor's Handbook - Psycannon Bolts page 191

Blood of Martyrs - Witch Cage page 121

Daemon Hunter - Psyk-out Grenade page 67 - 68

Daemon Hunter - Psybolt Ammunition page 74 - 75

Daemon Hunter - Psyflame Ammunition page 74 - 75

You will have to be trained in the use of flame weapons and/or bolt weapons to use this equipment. The Whitch Cage is to restrain the psyker.

Another great defence against psychic powers is having a high dodge roll and you could always exploite his weakness of only being able to use 1 power a turn by forcing him to use it on defence psychic powers such as Catch Projectiles which uses up his use of a power next turn.



#15 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:30 AM

Phi6891 said:

Looking through several books I've found these items to deal with Psykers.

Inquisitor's Handbook - Psycannon Bolts page 191

Blood of Martyrs - Witch Cage page 121

Daemon Hunter - Psyk-out Grenade page 67 - 68

Daemon Hunter - Psybolt Ammunition page 74 - 75

Daemon Hunter - Psyflame Ammunition page 74 - 75

You will have to be trained in the use of flame weapons and/or bolt weapons to use this equipment. The Whitch Cage is to restrain the psyker.

Another great defence against psychic powers is having a high dodge roll and you could always exploite his weakness of only being able to use 1 power a turn by forcing him to use it on defence psychic powers such as Catch Projectiles which uses up his use of a power next turn.

uhm the witch cage sounds new to me *^* i'll take a look

for other equip: yes the sheer damage is good but if the problem was that I would have taken a multi-melta.

the witch case is cool but… -4 psy rating is kinda lame. a full psy void would have been a lot better

 

dodge powers? explain O:



#16 Phi6891

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:48 AM

Well the Witch Cage is only to limit his powers and to try and restrain him. I never said it as a practical weapon, it does make me think though do psykers need line of sight to target people with their powers and assuming that the answer is ‘yes’ then that stops him from using a lot of his combat powers. With the Witch Cage on he is also he is deaf and blind just so you know.

So what’s wrong with the Psycannon Bolts, Psybolt ammunition and the Psyflame ammunition? This ammunition ignores almost all of the defenses that a psyker can put up for defense, wasn’t that what your what you’re looking for? Because you said Flesh Like Iron and Molten Man is what he would have for defenses, so this stuff would still rip right through him, plus it would take him two turns to erect these powers which gives you two turns of free shooting on him.

What’s wrong with the Psyk-out grenade? It literally stops a psyker from manifesting any psychic powers, the dust would linger on the psyker for 5 rounds, that’s 5 rounds without having to worry about any psychic powers at all. I bet your going to say that is lame too.  

My question to you is what are you looking for as an answer to your problem? All you’re really doing on the boards here is shooting down people’s advice by calling it lame, so what were you expecting to hear from the community? Can you explain your problem a little bit more to us, like what do you mean by overcome your party psyker, because if damage is no problem for you, because you can just use a multi-melta, then that means that you don’t have any trouble in attacking and causing damage to the psyker. Then this leaves defense then, which there is a whole other thread that was started by Darth Smeg.

There is no dodge power, I'm talking about the dodge skill!

P.S.: There is no defense against Holocaust power; the only way to stop Holocaust is to prevent it from being manifested in the first place.

Incinerate is hard to use on a non-stationary and it has a limited range of 10m, so just stay away from him at the very least.

Firestorm well you’re kinda screwed, short of having a fire proof suite on.



#17 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:49 PM

You right, but now that I think about it, blinding the target will suffice thanks

My bad, my bad: I forgot psybolt and psyflame ammo override psychic defences :) 100 thrones for a 1-shot 1 kill? totally worth it

The psykout grenade is also pretty cool but 5000 is far too expensive for something is not the burning princess

"Dodge powers" -> how dodge skill come in handy dealing with powers?
RAW "When Dodging an area effect weapon, a successful Dodge Test will move the character to the edge of the area of effect".
Did I lost some important part or expanded skills options somewhere? [it would be awesome with my 69 Dodge]

Yeah it's something I havn't found out still: how "Incinerate requires you to concentrate on a single point, making it difficult to use against non-stationary targets" is translated in game terms? The 10 meters distance?

Sorry for my degrees in failure at fellowship, it wasn't my intention



#18 Phi6891

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:01 PM

No that's fine about the fellowship stuff I'm just being a D*@% is all, it's the internet and all.

 

I was talking about the Dodge skill in general against other psychic powers, for Firestorm there isn't really anything you can do short of having the minor psychic power Endure Flames from the Disciples of the Dark Gods on page 27, which gives you immunity from fire damage.

Funny story about that one, may team and I where waiting for a ride on some back water planet and I floated up to see over the buildings, to see if I can see our ride coming. So the pilot must've seen me do this and told the Priest (PC by the way) on board that there was a deamon incursion or something and then next thing I know is our ride comes in and the Priest with troops under his command and tries to arrest me. Well I try to give up peacefully so as not to involve my teammates in a bloody fight, but Eli (Arbite) tell him no that the cell is not going to hand over the party psyker. That's when **** hits the fan, the Priest gets back on the ship and his troops starts firing at us. I'm like great just wonderful and then I realize that the Priest is going to tell the pilot to open fire on use with bolt rounds from the ship, I'm like Oh F#@% so I teleport into the ship as it's lifting off to try and reason with the Priest. And what do you know that jerk shots me with a Flame pistol, so on my turn I make my WP test and use Endure Flames to protect myself from anymore damage from his flame pistol but in the process the whole ship is on fire in the inside of the plan and the pilot and him are burning to death. I'm like I'm out of this dead bird now and I teleport up and out of the plan as it crashes directly on top of Ovan (PC I.G.) but with his luck (he has 9 Fate Points) it didn't leave a scratch on him.

So anyways, the Psyk-out grenade is very expensive and hard to come by so that may be out of the question but it's still possible. The only thing that I can think of that could possibly stop the Psybolt or Psycannon bolts is the Catch Projectile psychic power from Telekinesis Domain, but that can be left up to arguing on another thread though.

So basiclly you have to stay out of site to advoid Firestorm, maybe you could use concelment or knock out the lights or something idk or use a flash grenade to blind him first possibly so he can't see you and target you as well, that to say as long as he doesn't have protection from photon grenades.

Now you don't have to worry about Holocaust and Incinerate as long as you stay at the very least 11 m at all times and just keep moving way from him if he gets close or if he is acting funny, so try scouting when you can I guess to stay away as much as possible.

P.S.: OMG I didn't know that Fire Storm could get so powerful, I totally misread that power.



#19 [S]ir[B]ardiel

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:36 AM

Ok there is can't be a "Cold War" like "stay cool cause we can destroy each other", I'll have to take him down lol he's full heretic now. Surprise blam and-oh, 5 fate points?
 

For **** sake.

 

ps: if he uses all his 6 psy rating dices, on a medium roll we have something like 7d10+5 FIERY DEATH.



#20 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:44 AM

Get Endure Flames as a Warp Dabbler arcana. Justify it by saying that the character began to meddle in dark forces specifically as a means of defense against the even more heretical psyker. It's very DH.






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