Jump to content



Photo

How does coordinated strike work?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,792 posts

Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:26 PM

Do both of you hit?  Does only one of you hit the opponent?  Are you rollign your leadership against your ally's disclpline so one of you is attacking?  Does your ally then get an attack too?

 

Help me out.

 

jh



#2 Yepesnopes

Yepesnopes

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

Hey

The rules are not different from any other action card.

Regarding the rules, this action is an attack, nothing special about it.

Imagine PC_A has this action card and he wants to use it during his round. First, he checks if he meets the requirements listed in the card:

He has to have a melee weapon equipped and he has to be engaged with an ally, let's call him PC_B (although it can be an NPC as well, as long as he is an ally it is ok). PC_B has to have a weapon equipped as well. And finally, PC_A has to be engaged with the target, let's say Orc_1.

He then performs the skill check listed on the card; that is PC_A rolls Leadership versus PC_1 Discipline.

PC_A sorts out the dice out come and PC_A and GM resolve the dice out come with the options given by the action card.

Notice that in the action card, in the line describing the skill check it says "vs. Target Discipline". If the target would be an ally, when resolving the action card (hammers, boons etc), you will be dealing damage to your ally! And what it is even more comic, the ally will be hiting himself with his own weapon…this is more appropriate for a Mind Control action card than for a Coordinated Strike action card burla

And yes, PC_B will be able to act normally during his round, the contrary is specified nowhere.

Really, don't get confused by the name of the card, there is nothing special about it, is a simple attack. Of course, the interpretation on how the attack occurs is left to the imagination of each one of us.

Cheers,

Yepes


The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#3 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 437 posts

Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:39 AM

It's a normal action, and in no way impairs the allied character's ability to attack on their turn. If it did, that would be mentioned directly on the card. You can visualize it as one character creating an opportunity for the other to attack,  one person being a feint, both acting at the same time, or even one person shoving the foe towards the other person's weapon. In terms of flavor, it's like the ally getting an extra action… but mechanically it's just a normal action from the person who has the Coordinated Strike card (not the ally).

The point of the action is to allow for a "non-combat" PC to sometimes score a big hit despite having a crappy strength and probably not such a great weapon. But the game designers don't want this to steal the spotlight from the more combat-focused PCs, so they made the action dependent on the melee PC being nearby, and you use 1 or more of the melee-focused PCs stats to calculate the damage. That's pretty clever game design, IMHO.

 

Yepesnopes said:

 

He has to have a melee weapon equipped and he has to be engaged with an ally, let's call him PC_B (although it can be an NPC as well, as long as he is an ally it is ok). PC_B has to have a weapon equipped as well. And finally, PC_A has to be engaged with the target, let's say Orc_1.

He then performs the skill check listed on the card; that is PC_A rolls Leadership versus PC_1 Discipline.

 

 

To clarify, the roll is vs Orc_1's Discipline, not a PC's discipline. You roll vs the Target, not vs the Ally, but you must be in the same engagement as both of them. Orc_1 takes the damage.

So PC_A rolls his own Leadership vs Orc_1's Discipline. If he hits, he'll use either PC_B's strength and PC_A's weapon, or PC_A's Strength and PC_B's weapon, depending on which side of the card he's rolling. If you roll 2 eagles on the red side, you get the strength from both PC_A and PC_B added to the DR of PC_B's weapon. Which sounds awesome, but presumably PC_A's Fellowship is higher than his Strength (or else he'd take card like Reckless Cleave instead of Coordinated Strike) so it's not as amazing as it sounds.



#4 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 4,792 posts

Posted 02 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

Fascinating.  Does the orc get defense dice?  Is this in addition to the standard one purple in addition to the opposed check?

If youve got an ogre in the party with a Leader, this could be awesome.

 

GREEN Coordinated Strike Support, Teamwork Recharge: 4 Difficulty: Δ ?
Leadership (Fel) vs. Target Discipline (WP) Leadership trained, you and a coordinating ally both equipped with melee weapons
and both engaged with the target
æ You hit the target using your weapon’s damage rating but the coordinating ally’s
Strength to determine damage
æææ As above, +2 damage
√√ You and the coordinating ally each suffer 1 fatigue
¬¬ The coordinating ally may immediately perform a free manouevre
 
RED Coordinated Strike Support, Teamwork Recharge: 4 Difficulty:Δ
Leadership (Fel) vs. Target Discipline (WP) Leadership trained, you and a coordinating ally both equipped with melee weapons
and both engaged with the target
æ You hit using your own Strength but the coordinating ally’s weapon damage
and critical ratings to determine damage
ææ As above, and with enough boons you can activate the critical ratings of both
weapons
√ You and all allies in this engagement suffer 1 fatigue
¬¬ Add the coordinating ally’s Strength to the damage inflicted

 

 



#5 Yepesnopes

Yepesnopes

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,253 posts

Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

Emirikol said:

 

Fascinating.  Does the orc get defense dice?  Is this in addition to the standard one purple in addition to the opposed check?

 

 

But of course the Orc does not get de defence dice, the action is not "vs. Target's Defence". He can still use the active defence cards. Really, it is a normal combat action card.


The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#6 Matchstickman

Matchstickman

    Member

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

Emirikol said:

Fascinating.  Does the orc get defense dice?  Is this in addition to the standard one purple in addition to the opposed check?

It doesn't get a standard one purple, it's an opposed check, it's gets purple dice based on comparing statistics between the character using the action and the target of said action



#7 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 437 posts

Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:56 AM

Per the rules (it's a little vague in the core book, but the FAQ addresses it directly) the "standard one purple" is only for actions that say "vs Target Defence". When it's vs some other skill+characteristic combo, the minimum difficulty could be nothing. The total difficulty for Coordinated Strike is based on the PCs Fellowship vs the target's Willpower, plus one additional black die as listed on the upper left corner of the card. This uses the chart on page 43 of the core rules, or page 52 of the player's guide.

So it's best against low Willpower targets. Goblins and chaos spawn are easy to Coordinate against, but you're better off using a basic melee attack against a Chaos Warrior. If you have just a mediocre Fellowship, the difficulty will often be quite high, especially against boss monsters and Nemesis NPCs.

  • Fellowship 3 vs Willpower 2: 3 blue, 1 yellow vs 1 purple + 1 black. 64% hit chance.  (Target is Goblin, Snotling, Fury or Chaos Spawn)
  • Fellowship 3 vs Willpower 3: 3 blue, 1 yellow vs 2 purple + 1 black. 45% hit chance.  (Most targets)
  • Fellowship 3 vs Willpower 4 or 5: 3 blue, 1 yellow vs 3 purple + 1 black. 31% hit chance. (Target is River Troll, Rat Ogre, or Chaos Warrior)
  • Fellowship 3 vs Willpower 6+: 3 blue, 1 yellow vs 4 purple + 1 black. 20% hit chance.

The odds numbers get much better if the acting PC has an exceptional Fellowship.

  • Fellowship 6 vs Willpower 2:  6 blue, 1 yellow vs 1 black.  (No purple!)  97% hit chance. (Target is Goblin, Snotling, Fury or Chaos Spawn)
  • Fellowship 6 vs Willpower 3, 4 or 5: 6 blue, 1 yellow vs 1 purple + 1 black. 88% hit chance. (Nearly all other targets)
  • Fellowship 6 vs Willpower 6: 6 blue, 1 yellow vs 2 purple + 1 black. 75% hit chance.
  • Fellowship 6 vs Willpower 7 to 11: 6 blue, 1 yellow vs 3 purple + 1 black. 60% hit chance.
  • Fellowship 6 vs Willpower 12+ (ain't gonna happen): 6 blue, 1 yellow vs 4 purple + 1 black. 47% hit chance.

 

 



#8 Boehm

Boehm

    Member

  • Members
  • 361 posts

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:36 AM

Its a simple opposed check just like many spells or other action cards - so no base difficulty beyound that inferred from the opposed check and its NOT possible to use defensive actions against (ei. Dodge, Parry etc.) as its NOT vs. Target Defence

- Mechanically its no different than say - Backstab which as far as I recall is against Observation right??



#9 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 437 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

its NOT possible to use defensive actions against (ei. Dodge, Parry etc.) as its NOT vs. Target Defence

 

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation there.

 

Parry says it can be used against any Melee Attack, which is a pretty broad category of cards. Block says any Melee or Ranged Attack. Niether of them mention only working on actions that use Target Defence. The card type (determined by the icon in the upper left corner) seems to be all that matters.

 

Dodge does mention Target Defence, but the way the sentence is written I've always parsed it as any Melee Attack, or any Ranged Attack, or the specific subset of Spells that target defence. That's not the same as Melee Attacks vs target defence, Ranged attacks vs target defence, and Spells vs target defence. I'm pretty sure if they meant the later, the conjunctions and punctuation would have been placed elsewhere in the sentence.

 

That's my take on it, anyway.



#10 Boehm

Boehm

    Member

  • Members
  • 361 posts

Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

 

its NOT possible to use defensive actions against (ei. Dodge, Parry etc.) as its NOT vs. Target Defence

 

Dodge does mention Target Defence, but the way the sentence is written I've always parsed it as any Melee Attack, or any Ranged Attack, or the specific subset of Spells that target defence. That's not the same as Melee Attacks vs target defence, Ranged attacks vs target defence, and Spells vs target defence. I'm pretty sure if they meant the later, the conjunctions and punctuation would have been placed elsewhere in the sentence.

 

That's my take on it, anyway.

 

 

Hmmm maybe I have to check the rules from home - but as I recall Dodge etc modifies defence(?) ... and Opposed Actions are not influenced by defence ... - also keep in mind that base difficulty of Opposed Actions is generally 2d where as for attacks vs. Target Defence its 1d ... allowing defensive reactions vs. Opposed checks will thus make them pretty useless in most cases.



#11 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 437 posts

Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

Hmmm maybe I have to check the rules from home - but as I recall Dodge etc modifies defence(?) ...

Nope, I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. If you read the card, you'll see that Dodge says it adds misfortune "to the action's dice pool", not to your defence.

 

 

also keep in mind that base difficulty of Opposed Actions is generally 2d where as for attacks vs. Target Defence its 1d ... allowing defensive reactions vs. Opposed checks will thus make them pretty useless in most cases.

 

For Opposed checks you compare Characteristics. If your Fellowship is higher than their Willpower, the difficulty is only 1d, just like a normal attack. It doesn't get to 2d unless their Willpower is equal to your Fellowship.  Your typical greenskin, beastman, cultist or soldier has Willpower 3.

 

If your relevant Characteristic is 4+, the opposed check actions remain just as good as normal attacks against most foes, and against some weaker foes they're actually better.

 

If your relevant Characteristic is 2 or 3, then yes the opposed check action will suck for you (regardless of whether or not dodge enters the picture).



#12 Pedro Lunaris

Pedro Lunaris

    Member

  • Members
  • 460 posts

Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

Being mechanistical, I would say the Active Defenses do apply. All three basic Active Defenses describe in their effects that they apply in response to a Melee (and with Block and Dodge also Ranged) Attack. They don't specify the necessity of being used against actions that target Defense, only in the case of Dodge being used against Spell actions.

In Player's Handbook p. 62, we can see that a card Type is also considered one of it's Trait.

But being a narrator I wouldn't even mind this explanation. If the Action is an attack, even if it's a complex attack that uses leadership and therefore the help of an engaged ally, I would permit the use of Defense Actions against it. And not if the situation, for some reason, would prevent it. I don't know how that situation would be, but anyway...






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS