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#1 Wolfgar

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 06:18 PM

If you are playing with Cthulhu as the Ancient One and the Dark Pharoah as the Herald….

and  Michael, Marc, Monterey, Skids, Tony, or Zoey pulls Mythos Lore as their Skill…

Not only will they start the game insane (which Monterey and Zoey will regardless of the skill they draw) but if they then draw Schizophrenia as their Madness, they'll be devoured in the first turn of play automatically. Yikes.



#2 Julia

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:59 PM

Wolfgar said:

If you are playing with Cthulhu as the Ancient One and the Dark Pharoah as the Herald….

and  Michael, Marc, Monterey, Skids, Tony, or Zoey pulls Mythos Lore as their Skill…

Not only will they start the game insane (which Monterey and Zoey will regardless of the skill they draw) but if they then draw Schizophrenia as their Madness, they'll be devoured in the first turn of play automatically. Yikes.

Not too bad, uh? Especially if the Devoured One is Monterey…


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#3 Wolfgar

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:00 PM

Julia said:

Not too bad, uh? Especially if the Devoured One is Monterey…

Well at that point then the game is just being too nice…



#4 The Professor

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:20 AM

So much disdain for Monterey. Okay, maybe it's because he's my very first Investigator…maybe it's because I've seen nearly 40 times (and coincidentally can recall) verbatim the entire Raiders of the Lost Ark movie…but seriously, no one else really enjoys this Investigator?

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#5 HorrorfromBuffalo

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:33 AM

I have no problem with Monterey, however, I just realized the other day for all my love of this game, I actually have no favorite character. Granted I don't think I have played with them all yet. The game present so many variables that characters can play a different role just because of the lousy (or awesome) equpiment they get from the start…or a nasty rumor card comes out at the wrong time.

That being said, I do have a fondness for Gloria as she was my first character. Get her a motorcycle and look out!



#6 Wolfgar

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

Well, the way I see it the problem comes down to Monterey's Will.  I consider Joe Diamond to be a slightly poorer version of Michael McGlen, And Monterey is a weaker version of Joe Diamond.

Michael has average Will and low Sanity, but he has ridiculous potential in the Fight department, so he can usually keep his Will cranked high enough to make it through most combats without sacrificing too much.

Joe has bad Will and fairly low Sanity, and doesn't quite have Michael's damage potential, but does have his special ability. with enough Clues to spare, or a good Will related skill, he can get through most fights. It means he tends to burn resources as he goes, but it's something.

Monterey has worse Will than Michael, lower Sanity than Joe, and doesn't have anything to help him make up for it. He's pretty much just gauranteed to go insane.



#7 Julia

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

Wolfgar said:

Well, the way I see it the problem comes down to Monterey's Will.  I consider Joe Diamond to be a slightly poorer version of Michael McGlen, And Monterey is a weaker version of Joe Diamond.

At a first glance, yeah, Michael seems to be a stronger version of Joe. But believe me, there are few investigators better than Joe in anything. His ability, two dice per clue spent, is amazing because it can be used to enchance *every* check. This versatility is impressive. And it's cumulative with any extra bonus derived from eventual Skill. Consider he gets a +1 Fight, every clue spent gives 2 extra dice. This means that every time you spend a clue to add to a die to a Fight check, you add three instead.

Plus, he's a 4/6, which is much better than a 3/7, because this implies he can max fight in most of the combats, in case of need.

Monterey is plagued by countless problems (low Sanity overall, and if paired with a starting Sanity of 3 spells "pain"; his Personal Story seems to screw him even more: he needs 3 monster trophies to pass - good luck - and fails if he gets 5 clues), sadly.


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#8 The Professor

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:59 PM

I knoiw this begins to sound trite after awhile, but his Personal Story does make him a lot better.


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#9 Wolfgar

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:04 PM

Julia said:

At a first glance, yeah, Michael seems to be a stronger version of Joe. But believe me, there are few investigators better than Joe in anything. His ability, two dice per clue spent, is amazing because it can be used to enchance *every* check. This versatility is impressive. And it's cumulative with any extra bonus derived from eventual Skill. Consider he gets a +1 Fight, every clue spent gives 2 extra dice. This means that every time you spend a clue to add to a die to a Fight check, you add three instead.

Plus, he's a 4/6, which is much better than a 3/7, because this implies he can max fight in most of the combats, in case of need.

Monterey is plagued by countless problems (low Sanity overall, and if paired with a starting Sanity of 3 spells "pain"; his Personal Story seems to screw him even more: he needs 3 monster trophies to pass - good luck - and fails if he gets 5 clues), sadly.

Oh absolutely. I played Joe Diamond in our Lurker game, and had I taken proper advantage of Pacts and Power, I probably could have dominated with him. I think I drew Conceal as my skill though, which while nice…Sneak just doesn't get the baby fed. If it had been Fight or grapple, awesome. If it had been Bravery, Strong Will or Will, awesome. Luck woulda been okay. Mythos Lore* would have been ridiculous. I relalized pre-game that mathematically he'd be able to pass any check involving his Skill**, since Clue tokens are basically added after modifiers and rerolls are made of all dice. Unfortunately I didn't get to show this off to my liking.

*Notably Mythos Lore would be great for Joe, but almost a punishment for Michael or Monterey.

**Presuming he only needs one success on the roll and isn't Cursed.

 

Monterey's PS helps a little, but honestly I think Michael gets more out of his and easier. It seems a little too late. It doesn't help that Monterey is a "shopper" and the "shopper" abilities leave me a little cold. Really the best part of Monterey is going on for 10 minutes worth of cheese puns.



#10 Julia

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:09 PM

Wolfgar said:

Mythos Lore* would have been ridiculous. I relalized pre-game that mathematically he'd be able to pass any check involving his Skill**, since Clue tokens are basically added after modifiers and rerolls are made of all dice.

Exactly! That's the point! Plus, as soon as you'll expand the game, you'll find several different combos able to make Joe simply unstoppable. Plus, if you manage to have him blessed :shudder:

Wolfgar said:

*Notably Mythos Lore would be great for Joe, but almost a punishment for Michael or Monterey.

That's very true :laughter: Harvey, Mary, Akachi and all the 7/3 characters in the game will party at the idea of having Mythos Lore, while the 3/7… :laughter:


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#11 Julia

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:23 PM

The Professor said:

I knoiw this begins to sound trite after awhile, but his Personal Story does make him a lot better.

:laughter: yeah, after he passes his PS, he's certainly a better investigator than before; the problem of his PS are the conditions: to pass, he has to defeat three monsters, and with 5/0 Fight/Will you have to be lucky with what you draw from the cup in order to have him pass quickly; on the other hand, he's penalized for having 5 clues. But the ultimate goal of the game is to have those bloody 5 clues and put a seal on the board. So, if you want him to pass, the risk is that he has to wander several turns trying to gather the trophies and some clues, and only afterwards he can finish off the clue collecting task. This means that it's very rare that Monterey could ever dive into a gate before let's say turn 6-7 (and only if you're lucky), especially because, IIRC, he starts with only 1 clue. So, basically:

- we have much better fighter than Monterey
- we have investigator starting with better equipment / a greater number of clues
- his PS story slows him down a lot, even if the reward could be ok

this probably could have a lower impact on long games; so maybe, if you're more on the roleplayish Arkham, with long games and so on, you could deal with this. If, on the other hand, your games last on average 10-11 Mythos, having an investigator being able to enter a gate no sooner than Mythos 8 by default is terrible.

Additionally, I believe that the condition "you lose the PS if you ever have 5 clues" is so wrong for everybody because you put that character in condition for not sealing anything unless suffering a bad penalty. I know there are circumstances allowing you to ignore all of this (Patrice, Research Material, Elder Signs, Favor of Nodens in play, Mythos Lore, Granny Orne and all the others), but they are not that common (well, if you play IH, you can go shopping for RM, at least, but still) and it's really a pity because sealing is the main focus of the game. Darrell was screwed by his PS (so that some people here have houseruled his failed condition to be 6 clues instead of 5), Monterey is another guy with several problems because of this (not to mention that Monterey had several problems per se, he didn't need for additional ones) and probably there is also someone else that I don't remember right now.


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#12 The Professor

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:46 PM

I changed Monterey's and Darrell's to read "more than 5 Clue tokens…"


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#13 Julia

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:49 PM

The Professor said:

I changed Monterey's and Darrell's to read "more than 5 Clue tokens…"

Yeah, and I can't, but agree with your decision. Especially for Darrell: his special ability focuses on having encounters, so if you have him going the whole time to OWs, he'll almost never use his ability. Monterey, on the other hand, being a Unique Item shopper, could theoretically have been thought to be an Elder Sign farmer, so under a certain point of view the 5 clues upper limit could be acceptable. But that "could" reads "if it's strictly necessary, but still, I don't agree"…


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